B-100 8 - axle seal won't stay in

[Bar Nuthin 1,124]

Searched, but couldn't find a similar post. My neighbor replaced the RH axle seal on his '76 B-100 8 Speed. It looked like it seated well, but after a few trips around the yard, it worked itself out. He tried again with a new seal, this time he applied some blue loctite and let it set for a day - but again after some mowing, the seal had worked itself loose again.  We double checked the seal number and have been using the correct seal.  Anyone else ever experience this? 

[JoeM 8,428]

just a thought, how much play is in the axle bearing? excessive bearing play might allow shaft work out the seal.

New bearings have about .003 play

I tested a new bearing on a good shaft. 

Edited August 14 by JoeM

[ri702bill 9,530]

Yes, there will be a slight clearance - gotta let the lubey juice get in & do its thing...

Did the housing bore get damaged at all in the seal removal process??

[ebinmaine 72,981]

Groove in the axle?

[squonk 43,939]

Use Loctite green bearing retainer on the outside of the seal. Clean the surfaces good with non-flammable CRC Brakleen in the red can.

 

 

[Bar Nuthin 1,124]

@JoeM @ri702bill @ebinmaine @squonk

Several good replies, as always!  I've not had a chance to put eyes on the condition myself. I'll try and get an inspection of things tonight. Thanks!

[953 nut 60,348]

3 hours ago, JoeM said:

how much play is in the axle bearing? excessive bearing play might allow shaft work out the seal.

The likely cause of the seal failure in the first place was a failed axle bearing. A new seal won't do any good if the bearing behind it is bad.

[WHX?? 51,899]

Just a reminder loctite won't do any good if surfaces are greasy or oily. 

[pfrederi 18,713]

Axle move in out a bit OK  Any movement up down... front rear is NOT

[Bar Nuthin 1,124]

13 hours ago, JoeM said:

just a thought, how much play is in the axle bearing? excessive bearing play might allow shaft work out the seal.

 

 

Yep. Has considerable movement side to side.

1. Where will I find the best resource for instruction, as well as a required parts list?
2. Should we focus on just replacing the needle bearing and required seals, or is this going to be a complete disassembly?

I guess what I'm looking for is a general recommendation on how to approach this.

 

 

 

Edited Thursday at 09:25 PM by Bar Nuthin

[wallfish 18,240]

The trans would need to be opened up to replace bearings. @stevasaurus has done plenty of videos and instruction concerning how to.

You should be able to find all you need in the trans section

https://www.wheelhorseforum.com/forum/49-transmissions-and-transaxles/

[Bar Nuthin 1,124]

5 hours ago, wallfish said:

@stevasaurus has done plenty of videos and instruction concerning how to.

 

I watched his 5 part video assembling an 8-speed transmission. That puts it in good perspective.

Dino's Videos - YouTube

Edited Friday at 03:38 AM by Bar Nuthin

[953 nut 60,348]

9 hours ago, Bar Nuthin said:

I watched his 5 part video assembling an 8-speed transmission. That puts it in good perspective.

Dino's Videos - YouTube

That is our man @stevasaurus, I would recognize those big hands anywhere. I didn't know he had ventured out into YouTube Video Land.            

[Bar Nuthin 1,124]

3 minutes ago, 953 nut said:

That is our man @stevasaurus, I would recognize those big hands anywhere. I didn't know he had ventured out into YouTube Video Land.            

I like that he doesn't sugar-coat the parts that are a pain in butt, or edit out boo-boos. He keeps it real!

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 11,521]

This should be the transmission you have

 

[stevasaurus 23,301]

Thanks for the complements guys.    This is the thread you want for the #5091.  These threads are in the "Instructional/Transmission" area on the Main Page.

It is also a good idea to use this manual along with the Video Thread. The #5091 is in section V.

@953 nut All of my videos are uploaded to U-Tube (see my signature in my posts) and then downloaded into the threads.  @Bar Nuthin It is a good idea to verify that you have 1 1/8" axles.  You will have to drop your trans, open it up and see what parts you may need.  Knowing you have at least one bad axle bearing, I would replace both of them, all 4 seals and the #3912 gasket.  Parts list is here...use the 3rd PDF.  Ask for any help you may need.  Take good pictures to show us as you go.  

 

[Bar Nuthin 1,124]

Thanks, @stevasaurus! 

 

The tractor belongs to my neighbor. He just retired and he's pretty mechanically inclined. I'm sure with the roadmap you've provided, and all of the info available here on Red Square, we'll get his tractor dialed in. 

 

This is our starting list. We'll see if any other parts are needed once we get into it.

Edited Saturday at 12:03 PM by Bar Nuthin

[Bar Nuthin 1,124]

Okay - I helped my neighbor get his hubs off, removed and disassembled the transmission - which from what I'm reading should be a 103907.

 

 

We tapped out the axle bearings, expecting to find needle bearings. Instead what we found are plastic (?) bushings. I'm not having any luck finding a reference or part number for anything but needle bearings.

Can anyone clue me in to what's going on here?   @stevasaurus have you ever run into these?

 

 

[oliver2-44 10,778]

Are there any signs that someone has been in that transmission before you?  I suspect those plastic bushing are not factory. Something a PO installed 

[mrc 960]

i'm with oliver2-44.   some PO must have done a little jerry rigging.   to think someone dropped the tranny, opened it up and went thru all that time and trouble and not fix it correctly.   good grief!

[kpinnc 14,711]

If the axle doesn't have grooves in it, I'd order a set of needle bearings and consider myself lucky. Those bushings do not belong! 

 

Hopefully they at least didn't damage the axles. 

[Bar Nuthin 1,124]

14 minutes ago, kpinnc said:

If the axle doesn't have grooves in it, I'd order a set of needle bearings and consider myself lucky. Those bushings do not belong! 

 

Hopefully they at least didn't damage the axles. 

 To be fair, the left side bushing was still holding up really well. The right side was slightly egg shaped inside and had signs of spinning inside the axle. Both axles appear to be in fine condition.

The PO had hose clamped a piece of radiator hose between the axle housing and the hub in an attempt to keep the oil seal held in. Had I not convinced my neighbor to replace what we thought was just a bad seal, it definitely could have done some damage in due time.

 

What's weird is these bushings were a perfect fit, and they don't appear to match any known PVC pipe sizes. I'd be curious to know how long they were in service.

Edited yesterday at 03:18 AM by Bar Nuthin
spelling

[kpinnc 14,711]

2 minutes ago, Bar Nuthin said:

What's weird is these bushings were a perfect fit, and they don't appear to match any known PVC pipe sizes. I'd be curious to know how long they were in service.

 

I'd be willing to bet they are made from Delrin. It's commonly used to make suspension bushings for DIY gokart/ dune buggies. It is easy to machine in a lathe and is fairly tough stuff. The PO could have made them on a hobby lathe. 

[Bar Nuthin 1,124]

3 minutes ago, kpinnc said:

 

I'd be willing to bet they are made from Delrin. It's commonly used to make suspension bushings for DIY gokart/ dune buggies. It is easy to machine in a lathe and is fairly tough stuff. The PO could have made them on a hobby lathe. 

I'll try to get a picture of the other end of the bushings. They have some type of pattern around the top edge. Maybe a clue to their origin.

[stevasaurus 23,301]

I have not seen anything like those either, but to be honest, I have not opened a #103907.  Is there a shoulder inside the axle housing to stop a bearing or bushing from migrating inward??  

   There are some differences between the #5091 and the #103907 and the #103916 and the #103918 transmissions.  For instance, the #103916 uses the #111199 ball bearing instead of the #1533.  You should check that on your #103907 for the differential carrage bearings.  I believe this 1976 time period is one of the times when Wheel Horse was sold to Studabaker or TORO??  Some of our members are just starting to open up these other, newer transmissions.  We are going to need good pictures of the inner parts to determine what these changes may be.  

   @gwest_ca...what do you think??