1267 ate a drive belt. Help with reasons?

[ebinmaine 63,157]

15 hours ago, John_ said:

Eric, how do the insides of the pulleys look,  are they free of rust ?    I remember years ago of a couple of tractors eating drive belts from that.

John, I'm actually not sure.

Having only had the belt off in the dark and using headlamps to see what we were doing I can't honestly say that I was paying enough attention to doing the job correctly.

 

Edited November 29, 2018 by ebinmaine
Added response

[ebinmaine 63,157]

@stevasaurus

Thank you very much for the picture detail above.

Couple things....

On Trina's 657 her Tecumseh had wire guides top and bottom on the engine pulley and they were none 

at all on the Belt guard.

When we temporarily transplanted the Briggs engine into her tractor we found that we needed to replace those because it would not run correctly without them.

On the 867 we have and on this 1267, there is only one lower belt guide which is part of the belt guard. No upper guide of wire or anything else on either tractor.

Also, neither one of them has any fins or flanges or guides built into the belt guard itself, inside.

 

None of the three of our tractors has that lower rear roller that yours does.

 

14 hours ago, craftsmanmowerfreak said:

14 hours ago, craftsmanmowerfreak said:

My bet is on weak clutch spring. Had the issue on one

 

 

 

I have that same problem on my B80 a couple years ago. It would start to slip pretty much exactly like this one is doing when I was pulling a heavy load.

I have a new spring that I was going to put on Cinnamon horse c-160 as I was building that but I'll put it on this 1267 and see what happens.

 

[Elkskin's mower junkyard 1,117]

1 minute ago, ebinmaine said:

@stevasaurus

Thank you very much for the picture detail above.

Couple things....

On Trina's 657 her Tecumseh had wire guides top and bottom on the engine pulley and they were none 

at all on the Belt guard.

When we temporarily transplanted the Briggs engine into her tractor we found that we needed to replace those because it would not run correctly without them.

On the 867 we have and on this 1267, there is only one lower belt guide which is part of the belt guard. No upper guide of wire or anything else on either tractor.

Also, neither one of them has any fins or flanges or guides built into the belt guard itself, inside.

 

None of the three of our tractors has that lower rear roller that yours does.

 

 

 

I have that same problem on my B80 a couple years ago. It would start to slip pretty much exactly like this one is doing when I was pulling a heavy load.

I have a new spring that I was going to put on Cinnamon horse c-160 as I was building that but I'll put it on this 1267 and see what happens.

 

On 552 I used spring off a 312 I parted no problems since

[Sparky-(Admin) 19,554]

53 minutes ago, ebinmaine said:

 

None of the three of our tractors has that lower rear roller that yours does.

 

I've had plenty of machine come thru my garage and I've never seen that roller either Eric. Makes me think it might be a home made/added feature.  

[Pullstart 59,733]

That roller looks like a belt guard spacer?

[stevasaurus 22,230]

I was pretty sure that roller was added. 

[ebinmaine 63,157]

1 hour ago, stevasaurus said:

I was pretty sure that roller was added. 

Given the fact that some models had an inside-the-guard liner-upper flange....

 

Should I add one while I have the guard off again?

 

I'm thinking like a small piece of angle metal riveted on.

 

 

 

[stevasaurus 22,230]

Just me...I sure would like to fix the problem before I started doing other stuff to it.  :)

 

[ebinmaine 63,157]

Just now, stevasaurus said:

Just me...I sure would like to fix the problem before I started doing other stuff to it. 

 

Oh yes...I agree

 

[stevasaurus 22,230]

Eric, what do you think is going on there...can you show us a picture of the belt???  Do you have a guide or keeper for the belt on the idler pulley??

 

I'm just thinking that if you have one of these guides...like the one on this idler pulley...it may have moved so that it is now scraping your belt.  ???

[ebinmaine 63,157]

Well I just took a minute as you were posting and headed out to the shed

 

I found a couple things that are bothering me quite a bit.

 

I've discovered that all three of the  pulleys are quite Rusty and I have a strong feeling that the clutch spring maybe a little too long or weak..

here's a picture of the inside of the belt guard and you can see the powder Circle that was lined up with the idler pulley 

 

 

here's a picture of the belt as it is laying on the floor and you can see there are a couple of indentations from where it got hot

 

 

 

 

 

 

here's a picture of the clutch spring I took off along with the one that I had set aside for the cinnamon horse that I'm going to put on this tractor tonight. Noticed that they are a little bit different in length.

 

 

The old one is 7-15/16  and the new one is 7-11/16.

 

 

I'm going to have to conclude that Rusty pulleys combined with a spring that is just a little bit too long is what caused the failure.

 

I'll install the new belt and try to drive it around a bit probably tomorrow and keep you guys posted.

 

 

Please feel free to comment more.

[wallfish 15,926]

The majority of the "belt powder" sure is concentrated around that idler location. It appears the flat of the belt is rubbing on the belt guard at the idler pulley. A stronger spring is going to pull it UP even harder. Seems to me that belt may be a little long. Are they all original pulleys?

Can you post a pic of tractor with the belt guard off

Edited November 29, 2018 by wallfish

[wallfish 15,926]

From Steve's pic of a belt guard, you can barely see the belt path and the top of the idler position. Idler should be down a little from the top edge of the guard.

 

[Lee1977 6,217]

Is that the right belt guard. As said looks like the idler is right at the top of the guard.

[ebinmaine 63,157]

@wallfish

I'll post a pic of the belt installed in just a few minutes

 

Going by the part number information that I have for that year this is the correct belt.

 

 

 

1 minute ago, Lee1977 said:

Is that the right belt guard. As said looks like the idler is right at the top of the guard.

 

 

It appears to be correct for the year of the tractor but I've only had this thing since August so I have no way of knowing.

 

 

I did just discover a few minutes ago that the brake is mounted backwards in respect to the one that is on the 867. It is mounted in the same direction as on my 70 series B&C tractors.

 

[wallfish 15,926]

Just seems that idler is sitting too high. This will cause it to rub and slip

[ebinmaine 63,157]

1 minute ago, wallfish said:

Just seems that idler is sitting too high. This will cause it to rub and slip

I verified on the inside of this particular belt guard that that idler has clearly been sitting too high. There are rub marks on the inside of the top of the belt guard

 

 

I'll post a couple pictures in just a minute

[ebinmaine 63,157]

So for clarification purposes the engine pulley appears to be 2.5 inches in diameter. The drive pulley appears to be 3.75 inches in diameter.

 

The Idler pulley that I took off and the one that I have in stock that I'm going to put back on are both 3 inches in diameter.

 

that's the one that concerns me because I read in another post that I cannot currently find that the idler pulley should only be 2 inches in diameter but that would in turn make this belt that much longer.

it does not appear that the belt is currently hitting the tab that is on the idler pulley bracket.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I do agree that this belt could clearly be shorter.

[wallfish 15,926]

Check over the linkage and the roll pin which connects the arm to the rod which controls the idler movement. It's over on the brake band side. Grab both arms and there should not be any play when trying to move them back and forth.

 

[Lee1977 6,217]

The idler pulley should never hit the top of the belt guard even if the belt is too long. I don't have a WH tractor that old but the transmission pulleys on my C-120 and 312-8 are a lot larger.

 

Are the holes for the idler shaft worn? I had to drill mine out and install oilite bushings. There was enough play the shaft hammered when the clutch was pushed in.

Edited November 30, 2018 by Lee1977

[ebinmaine 63,157]

@wallfish and @Lee1977

 

The shaft on that linkage did not appear to be to excessively worn but I'll double-check it next time I get back out to the shop.

 

What I did figure out tonight is that the brake setup has clearly been modified to that of a b or c series.

 

I took it apart and attempted to put it back together the way it should have been by turning the brake band around and discovered that this may not be the original transmission.

I'm wondering if maybe this could be an 8-speed instead of a 6-speed? Which I realize is pretty much the same thing but things are just not lining up correctly.

it's going to be at least a couple days or more before I get around to messing around with this thing very much more.

 

I know I can get this to work and run and drive but I have to figure out how the linkage is going to go. The brake band for the 867 downstairs has the hole in the opposite side of the one that is in the 1267 in the shop.

 

So with that information in mind... @stevasaurus @pfrederi @Racinbob or any other resident transmission experts.

 

Without opening this thing up and looking at the differential... is there a way to tell if this is a 10 pinion transmission that has the limited slip?

 

[wallfish 15,926]

If the brake was working before, put it back together the way it was and get a shorter belt. It's difficult to say how much shorter from pics but 1/2 to 1" should probably do it.

Get both sizes and take back the one you don't use or keep it in inventory like I do. The shorter belt will also cause more tension from the spring.

[ebinmaine 63,157]

On 11/29/2018 at 8:44 PM, wallfish said:

If the brake was working before, put it back together the way it was and get a shorter belt. It's difficult to say how much shorter from pics but 1/2 to 1" should probably do it.

Get both sizes and take back the one you don't use or keep it in inventory like I do. The shorter belt will also cause more tension from the spring.

Good plan.

 

I can get 1" intervals in size.

👍🏼

 

Edited December 9, 2018 by ebinmaine

[ronhatch 405]

Kill 2 birds with one stone. Put a 1" (?) bigger pulley on the motor  Belt now fits and you can plow snow faster. 

[ebinmaine 63,157]

On 11/29/2018 at 11:20 PM, ronhatch said:

Kill 2 birds with one stone. Put a 1" (?) bigger pulley on the motor  Belt now fits and you can plow snow faster. 

I wouldn't mind if my reverse was a touch faster but I don't think I have room for a larger pulley inside the opening at the end of the belt guard.

 

Edited December 9, 2018 by ebinmaine