New member intro and a 414-8 value question or two...

[dynodave 14]

Hello there all you Red Square peeps. I've been lurking awhile and since I have found a WH that I like, I only signed up today. First my short intro. I'm a 20 year, disabled Navy Vet. 51 years old, 2 grown kids and married almost 30 years. I have a serious Maico dirt bike addiction and a serious love of vintage garden tractors. Currently my tractor collection consists of 2 1984 Case 116 XC's (very small but run 16HP B&S.) I'm looking to get into the WH game. I am positive, because of my addictive personality, the first Horse purchase will lead to more. So I wanted to ask the pros for your opinions on value of this `89 414-8 that I have found. Owner says that it has 900+ hours, is all original, runs and mows great, and doesn't smoke. He wants $1250 for it which scares me a bit...being on a meager fixed enlisted retirement income. Any and all opinions are very welcome. Thanks in advance. 

Edited May 8, 2017 by dynodave

[JAinVA 4,638]

Decent looking tractor but way to pricey in my mind.In my part of the world $700 to $800 maybe.There are in my mind too many of these machines out there to pay the asking price for the machine you show.I'm sure others here will advise you but I'd pass on the machine for that price.Trust me Wheel Horses are like Lays potato chips.You can't have just one.In the last 2 years I have brought home at least 6 and have never paid more than $450 for any of them.Some ran with no work and some needed attention.They all are still here and have different duties.Luck,JAinVA

Edited May 8, 2017 by JAinVA

[dynodave 14]

Thanks Jim. I think it's high too.

[elcamino/wheelhorse 9,362]

Welcome to  the Forum . I agree with Jim Anderson that is a little high for this neck of the woods. See what some of guys  Wis. say about the price. Also check the classified section , that will give you some ideas.   

[dynodave 14]

Will do. Thanks for the welcome Jim. I'm all over the classifieds.

[JERSEYHAWG / Glenn 4,499]

DAVE  ,,     to red square. And thank you for your service  

 

It's a bit high in my opinion to.

 

Glenn

[dynodave 14]

Thanks Glenn and you are welcome. It's high...but it is spring time...sellers season.

[JAinVA 4,638]

Absolutley,

             For sellers of most lawn equipment spring and summer are prime time.For leaf vacs and sweepers fall is the season and for plows and blowers winter is king.Deals are still out there in every market,you just have to be patient and know what is a deal for you.Luck,JAinVA

[dynodave 14]

Thanks again Jim. Is 900+ (almost 1000) hours very high for a `89 if it was maintained regularly? The guy says it doesn't make any funny noises or smoke.

Edited May 8, 2017 by dynodave

[farmer 1,078]

dynodave, I can't really comment on the asking price, as it depends so much on your locality, but regarding the recorded hours..  (if genuine) is not high. 

Tractors nearly thirty years old, so that's an average of thirty hours/year, which imo isn't much. If it's been a one owner machine and has been looked after and you were selling it  maybe it wouldn't seem too expensive?

Very difficult to judge..good luck will your decision, not an easy one.   

Edited May 8, 2017 by farmer

[AMC RULES 37,211]

[SylvanLakeWH 28,572]

 

And, Thank You for your service to our Country!

[Ken B 3,189]

414's are a great tractor. The hours aren't really a huge concern. That engine can go many more if it was maintained some. The guy's property seems to be very well taken care of so hopefully some of that care spilled over onto this machine.  The tractor looks pretty clean, I think it would look really nice with a good bath and a good coat of wax. I do think the price is a little high, If you showed up with cash in hand he might be willing to take 8-850. That might not be too bad. It all boils down to what your local market has to offer as far as clean Wheel Horse's and of course how bad you need or want it...

[Racinbob 11,989]

When is comes to the value of machine that age I think that it comes down to the individual machine and not so much the fact that it's nearing 30 years old and the average price of those machines. Physically that one looks great from the picture. Assuming it's all original it was well cared for so you should be able to assume that it was well cared for mechanically as well. If it checks out as such I'd say it's still on the high side but not ridiculous. Sure, you could find one for less but you likely will have to invest more in getting it in top shape ending up with about the same investment. I would try for a better price but I don't see you getting hurt if he's not willing to budge on his price. 

[dynodave 14]

farmer - Thank you for the welcome and your reply. I agree with you. There are Wheel Horses (pre- Toro) in the UK? Cool.

AMC RULES - Thanks for the welcome. I like AMC too.  

SylvanLakeWH - You're welcome.

Ken B - Thanks for reply too. "Need and want"...two of my biggest problems...constantly confusing the two daily.

Racinbob - Good advice that I agree with. Thank you too for your reply.

All good advice.

Is there a physical frame size difference between a 310 and a 410? Are they on the same frame? I ask this one because I'm a big guy with very bad knees, need some leg room, and seat not too close to the steering wheel. From my lurking, I knew this was a great forum.

Edited May 8, 2017 by dynodave

[Fordiesel69 271]

12 hours ago, dynodave said:

Thanks again Jim. Is 900+ (almost 1000) hours very high for a `89 if it was maintained regularly? The guy says it doesn't make any funny noises or smoke.

 

900 ish is not much assuming it is serviced frequently.   I turned down a mint / new condition 314-H with 250ish hours because the owner has passed right after it was bought, the wife did not know the oil needed to be changed and put on most of the hours.  Once the battery died and the fuel spoiled she decided to sell it.  I turned it down as the engine had a minor knock, and it was full of metallic original oil.  I ended up getting another low 255hrs 314-H  that has a tiny bit of minor paint scratches, but was super maintained for a lot less money. 

 

On the flipside, with the old crappy oils back when the K-series engines were made, they were supposed to last 2500 +/- hrs.  If you aquire a super low hour k-series / magnum now and use state of the art SAE 30W / or 15W-40 diesel oil, I imagine they will last longer. 

 

At around 1000 hrs, the upper throttle shaft bushing will wear mostly on 14HP/16HP engines but also on some 12HP, and this gap will allow unfiltered air into the engine.  This will accelerate the wear on the cylinder and cause oil burning very soon after.  Also on magnum engines, there is a molded rubber hose connecting the breather to the air cleaner back plate.  This hose often rots out, and goes un noticed, which will ruin the engine in a matter of 100 hours by the large amount of unfiltered air. 

 

Lastly, if you are looking at any 8 speed units, inspect the transaxle fluid for moisture, and also the shift boot.  If fluid is milky, chances are the inside of the tranny will be toast in no time. 

 

   

 

 

[dynodave 14]

Thanks for the great tips Fordiesel69! What about the model 310-8 with a 10 HP Magnum? Regarding the upper throttle shaft bushing and the molded rubber breather hose, Does the same apply to a 310-8 with a 10hp Magnum?  

 

How shall I go about checking the transaxle fluid for moisture?

[pfrederi 18,711]

If the transaxle fluid looks like chocolate milk you have a water issue.

[dynodave 14]

Thanks pfrederi. Can you give me an idea of where the transaxle oil drain plug is and what size socket I'll need? I'm bringing the socket with me.

[stevasaurus 23,301]

Dave, Welcome to Red Square...from another Navy guy.    Kenosha is not far from me and also not far from Indiana.  Both states are a treasure trove of Wheel Horses.  That price seems high to me also, but it may depend on what attachments come with that horse.  I think to dollar is around $8 for just the horse.  You are also not too far from a few Wisconsin members that are in the process of cornering the market.  I would get to know these guys fast.    That does look like a nice horse though. 

[pfrederi 18,711]

21 minutes ago, dynodave said:

Thanks pfrederi. Can you give me an idea of where the transaxle oil drain plug is and what size socket I'll need? I'm bringing the socket with me.

Should be a dipstick under the seat after it has run around pill the stick look for chocolate milk. Pic 2

 

  if not open the square head 7/16" plug and stick your pinkie in. Pic 1 Diagonal plug on left of housing

[WHX?? 51,886]

 Dave and thank you for your service. What that like three new Wisconsinites this past week?!?!

57 minutes ago, stevasaurus said:

not too far from a few Wisconsin members that are in the process of cornering the market

Now who you talking about Steve.... not none of us up here!  You must mean those horse thieves to the west that are cutting back on buying ...

 

Sounds like the guys got you covered on advice Dave but do keep an eye on CL down there, there have been some nice scores come up.

[dynodave 14]

stevasaurus - Thanks for the warm welcome Shipmate. The machine in this thread has no attachments other than the deck. After 72 hours of nearly continuous searching, I have determined that there are lots of them around Wi, Il, and Ind. I'm going to keep the search on and wait for the right one. Hopefully some of the Wisconsin guys (cornering the market) might chime in with a good one for sale. Thanks for the heads up.

 

Perfect pfrederi...that's what I needed to know. Thanks for the pics and tips. That'll be my first check.

 

WHX11 - Thanks Shipmate. My sniffers are on high.

 

Is there a difference in size between the 310 and 410? I mean the distance between the seat and the pedals...cause I'll need some room there. 

 

Edited May 8, 2017 by dynodave

[Fordiesel69 271]

1 hour ago, dynodave said:

Thanks for the great tips Fordiesel69! What about the model 310-8 with a 10 HP Magnum? Regarding the upper throttle shaft bushing and the molded rubber breather hose, Does the same apply to a 310-8 with a 10hp Magnum?  

 

How shall I go about checking the transaxle fluid for moisture?

 

I do not and have not owned the magnum 10's or 8's.  But can say the K series never wore out throttle shafts, like the 12,14,16 HP models.  The reason is the air velocity pulsing back and forth as engine is running.  A 16hp downright hurts your hand when you attempt to cover the carb..... a 8HP or 10HP will not. 

 

The rubber hose exists on all 10HP on up for sure.  I don't know if the M8 engines have this hose but peek under the carb and you will see a hose going from engine to air filter plate.  Inspect it good.

[dynodave 14]

17 minutes ago, Fordiesel69 said:

 

I do not and have not owned the magnum 10's or 8's.  But can say the K series never wore out throttle shafts, like the 12,14,16 HP models.  The reason is the air velocity pulsing back and forth as engine is running.  A 16hp downright hurts your hand when you attempt to cover the carb..... a 8HP or 10HP will not. 

 

The rubber hose exists on all 10HP on up for sure.  I don't know if the M8 engines have this hose but peek under the carb and you will see a hose going from engine to air filter plate.  Inspect it good.

Will do Fordiesel69. Thanks again for these priceless tips.    

Edited May 8, 2017 by dynodave