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Very sorry for your loss Rich. Always enjoyed seeing Wayne at the show. God be with you Wayne. You will be missed.

Well, I finally got the 857 I bought at the auction in Charlottesville going. I lightly sanded it and clear coated. After getting the engine back together and timed correctly, she is purring like a kitten - very little knock now - it was way out of time (thanks @oldredrider!). I drove it around enough to check it out and it runs great in all gears, idles down nicely, and doesn't seem to smoke any that I can tell, except a little at start up. Below are a few pics including a before and a couple that look a little like something from @AMC RULES. I think I'm going to put on the deck I got last fall and look at the show for a lawn ranger deck for Emory.

RIP Wayne... we miss you friend.

Peace be with you Wayne. It was always a pleasure to see you and Peggy the 1st thing on Thursdays at the show. I always looked forward to sharing that years Homemade Wine with you guys. There will be an empty place this year at the Big Show my friend. My prayers with you, Peggy, Rich and all. I will miss talking horses with you Mate. God Bless...Fair Winds and Following Seas. Rich...here is that picture I was talking with you about. I think it is one of the best pictures of people that I have captured...her look is priceless...tells me..."I miss Grandpa and it just ain't fair".

Thought I'd post up some of what I consider to be really favorite hand tools I've built up over the years - the amount of stuff I've worn out is amazing and recently I've had to start replacing a lot of things . Finding good quality without going broke is tough , but here's some good examples. One of the best places to get high precision with incredibly tough steel is Japan - their idea of a screwdriver makes the rest of the world look pathetic - Vessel is one of their top companies. Philips screws , as some may know , are designed to "cam out" at a certain torque limit. Japanese Industrial Standard cross head drivers are intended to easily exceed the torque limit of the fastener - and never slip. The angles of the tips are slightly different - use a Philips driver on anything made in Japan , such as a motorcycle or Japanese car and you'll absolutely ruin their cross-head screws. Use the right driver for the job - it really applies here. Nice part - use that JIS cross head driver on a Philips screw, it grabs so hard they can snap the head off before slipping. US market distributor is JDV products on the east coast - Larry is the best contact in sales and can help answer any questions. I have set up a discount code for IH8MUD members - maybe I can get him to set up a Red Square discount as well - he's done us a great service. https://www.vesseltools.com/ Take a gander at their Impacta line - it has a built in breaker mechanism in it for use with a hammer and they truly work quite well. Even the rusted, nasty screws on my old Land Cruiser snap right loose with their tools. Vessel supplied Toyota as well as KTC , Kioto and a few other companies in the included tool kits in their top line trucks and cars. The tool kits in some of the older Land Cruisers were amazing - a nice canvas roll that even included a mini grease gun . These trucks were designed to live in the worst corners of the planet and survive, nothing else like them. Just a few of the Vessel drivers I have, didn't have an Impacta silver one handy as they live in the Cruiser at all times, lol... My absolute favorite hand drivers I've ever used, super comfortable on the hand and excellent grip - very hard but not brittle tips that will knock the most stubborn fasteners loose easily - made by KTC with dark lacquer wood handles, beautifully built and not very easy to get . They have to come directly out of Japan - no US distributor will bring them over for some reason. When it comes to pliers I've worn out every brand you can think of - from Crescent, Channelock, Klien and everyone else including some German built. They all wear out their teeth and really never work like they should - Knipex beats everyone as far as I'm concerned. Oldest pair I own is 8yrs old, not one sign of wear on the teeth yet and they grip far better than anyone else. Knipex Cobra pliers - try these and you'll melt your Channelock's out of disgust - these grip far better, have a wider range, more torque transfer and far harder teeth . They hold so well they will stay on a round object by themselves. Knipex high-leverage diagonal cutters - rated up to very hard piano wires, small bolts , ect. They can even handle my 3/32" 312 & 316 SS tig filler rod that would destroy any Channelock or Klien cutters - dented both brands on that stuff already, these handle it fine but take some force. For that heavier 1/8 Stainless filler in higher grades, bolts or anything else that will fit in the jaws - Cobolt compound leverage cutting pliers from Knipex , love 'em and effortless in how well they work. These have been through about 4lbs of ss wire filler already as well as other odd jobs including hardened metric screws . Barely started to remove the jaw coating....lol. Knipex 6" angled needle nose pliers w/cutter. Very well made, excellent grip strength and tips that don't wear or bend, unlike everyone else. Knipex S shaped special needle nose pliers - these reach those pesky cotter pins and hair pin clips while allowing you to actually see what you're doing. Perfect for working on carburetors, wish I had these 25yrs ago. More to come soon - show us your favorites, it's interesting to see opinions on different brands/uses/durability . I've learned the hard way over the years you replace cheap tools again and again, learning the whole time if you'd have bought better quality you'd have only done it once. I do have some literally throw-away stuff - and it shows it's been used for that very purpose, but I keep those cheap tools around to prevent destroying an expensive specialty tool, some of this stuff is very expensive but worth every penny when it lasts and does the job. One lousy special long-armed puller cost me $500 back in the day when I was working in the shops, but still have it and use it far more often than I'd like despite the cost, it's well paid for itself over the years. Wish now I'd spent the rest on the complete set of heads/arms/attachments - today they are worth a lot of money above what they originally cost but it's done the job well with some attachments I've made to fit it . Just pulling the hubs, steering wheels and hitch pins on the Horse was worth the cost alone. Sarge

I can see Red Square is not just another posting forum. It's my honor to witness such a tribute to it's members. Much respect

Rest in Peace Wayne from all your brothers. http://buckheitfcandcrematory.com/tribute/details/1675/Wayne-Wilson/obituary.html#tribute-start Pics courtesy of @rmaynard

Almost the age to soon start them on Wheel Horses:http://www.flixxy.com/the-spirit-of-childhood-hello-brother-louis-armstrong.htm

Every year I try to do something for our support members who are going to the big show in PA. I usually get started a bit sooner than this but we still have time. This idea came to me a few weeks ago and I finally got busy and came up with a plan. I thought it would be fun to make trading cards that we can swap with other members. They will be 3 x 5 which is a bit larger than a sports card but not too large. Since these cards are about us as support members your picture must have you in it. Does not matter what else is in the picture as long as you are in it. Keep it family friendly though. Along with your picture please pm me your info for the back of the card. You do not need to give your phone or email but remember these are your cards and only the members you trade with would have your contact info anyway. I will need your fist and last names so send me a PM with your info and picture. The proof I post on this thread will not show your name or any personal info just your username and member number on the front. The back of my card is just an example. You can share the info you want. Each support member who posts and is coming to the show will get 25 cards free of charge of course as a thank you for your support. Last year we had over 50 members post for a banner but I had about 10 no shows Again these cards are free to the members who pick them up at the show this year but sometimes things mess up our plans. If that happens you can contact me and I will package and ship them to you for $10 to cover the cost. If you are not sure yet if you are going to the show please wait to order when you are sure. Once you post the image you want I will post a proof back but will not post the back of the card with any contact info. Any personal info will be sent to you in a PM I think we are somewhere around 200 support members now and I would love to see all of you at the show this year. That's a lot of trading cards though so maybe not. You're all worth it though.

I would take the C-120 over the 312 but not because of the engine. I like the larger wheels and tires on the C series. As far the engine itself I would take the magnum. No timing issues no points to mess with. One thing. Some magnums came with the fixed jet walbro carbs. i do not like them as much as the adjustable jet carbs.

Call me nuts Jim but as much as the magnums can be unstoppable beasts I prefer the pre -'78 older K's. Just like the look of that belt guard and S/G hanging out there not to mention engines with old skool points too. I also say this probably just because I have more experience with them! Sounds like you are thinking of selling one? We might need a pic or 3 if that's the case to help with that decision!

The belt needs to be supported on the bottom, right below the front pulley at about the 7:00 position. Another thing is the belt needs to be loose enough to allow it to slip around the pulley. Try this, with the trans in neutral, tie down the clutch pedal down in the "pushed position" to simulate you pushing it with your foot. Start the engine. Now use a phillips head screwdriver to support the bottom of the belt loop right below the pulley and move it around slightly to find that "sweet spot" where it will allow the belt to slip on the pulley. Once you find it, that's where you need to attach a support to hit that area of the belt. The easiest support is a piece of 3/16" or 1/4" rod bent into an "L" shape with a "U" on the long end, so you can bolt it to the frame. This will allow some adjustment so you can fine tune it and easily lock it down in the right spot. Hope I'm not over explaining this

Alrighty, here's the verdict . . . Truck: $590 to fix the bumper the POS backed in to (Sorry off topic ) Starter: I literally looked at the cleaned up gear with a magnifying glass. No cracks or defects that I could see. I'm thinking with the starter gear blasting on it, a failure should appear pretty quickly. Since the gear ring and flywheel are dis-similar metals, I could not tack weld or braze them together (at least not with my skill or welders). So I hit the steel ring gear with the MIG welder at the 12/3/6/9 o'clock positions on both sides. Just enough to change the edge, not lay bead weight. This created enough grip to keep it affixed to the flywheel. I ran it through some testing before I reinstalled the engine shroud and it seems like it worked. If it ends up failing at some point, I'll repost it here.

Hey Ed. I disassembled the tractor to the point of removing engine tin, seat pan, belt guard, hood, etc... I didn't separate the engine or trans from the frame. As for decals, yes I did clear over them as well. Only the one on the right hood side was lifting any - slight corner fold, so I glued it back down. There are some pits/chips under the old repaint on the hood, but I did decide to leave them. The repaint was on the hood, some engine tin, steering tower, and belt guard. It's off just a little, but had weathered and gotten quite a bit of patina itself. I felt that leaving it alone and clearing would give a better result than stripping and repainting. I'm very pleased with the outcome and am glad I left the red alone - original and repaint alike.

Thank you everyone for your condolences. I sure am gonna miss him.

I'm sorry to hear of your loss.

Whatsamattawhichyou One of these days Dells I'm gonna clean up my 857 like that. @857 horse is right one of the better sixties horses out there! Your's may very well be your go to as well!

Wow, what a great thread. @jebbear...I have to apologize, this is the 1st time I have seen this thread. I have had some eye surgery and it is hard to sit here and read long and involved posts, but my name was mentioned and I came in and took a look at the 3rd page. I was so impressed, I went back to the start and read the whole thing. When I am asked to give advise, I like to know what the history is and what the owner is going to do with his horse after he is finished. In your 1st post, you mentioned that you were intending to use this horse for all the things that you and the previous owner used it for. This is not going to be a "Trailer Queen". I still have 2 of the "Short Frame Square Hoods", and they do not get any pasture play at all either. I envy you guys that have a lathe and milling machine and the room and expertise to use it. Ha...this might be as long of a post as Sarge's. OK...here is the deal. You say the #1533 bearings are great. Cool. That tells me...you can tell if the other needle bearings are suspect or not. You want to change all the seals and the gasket for sure. All of the bearings and seals in your transmission are readily available from Lowell, Motion Industries, NAPA, etc. Lowell has the only new #1533's. You can easily change out the bearings that have some wear, and now is the time. I would not change out OK bearings. Question...the trans oil in the pictures...is that the original oil (no flushing)?? If so, your gears look great and I would go with them...I would also think that most of your bearings are OK also. With the job you are doing, I feel like telling you to go with a lot of what you have in the transmission, is like cheating...but it comes down to why fix it if it is not broke. Your 2nd and 3rd fork gear even looks good, but if you were going to replace anything...that would be it (and save the old one) If you do decide to go with Lowell's 2nd/3rd fork gear...you need to make sure that the number of splines in the center is the same as the one you have. They made 2 kinds and one will not fit on your splined shaft. Lowell knows about this. Seeing what happened to the M-16121 (#1532) bearing under the large part of the mushroom gear, I would probably want to replace the bearing on the other end where the brake shaft comes out...KOYO B-1612 (#1530...new #704019).

Honestly, once you have properly adjusted a set of points they will be good for several years. I have a few with Magnums and two with the much maligned trigger solid state ignitions. They are just as dependable as the several older ones that have breaker points. I may have to change out a set of points every three or four years, not a big deal

Way to go Dells ... ....That turned out ! Emory must be on sensory overload with all the cool tractors you have and you know I’m still up for adoption .....

Nice one Terry! Rich, so very sorry to hear this. I hope you and your family draw closer to each other in this time of loss and never let the good times and memories fade away. Peace to you my brother.

Rich, I am so sorry to hear of Wayne's passing. As I said on the phone the other night, your dad will be sorely missed at the Wheel Horse show and in our RedSquare community. I can't tell you the hours that Wayne and I spent talking at the show each year. He always had pictures of something I'd never seen before. Always a pleasure. My condolences to you and all your family.

I was thinking the same thing except to Maine. Dell, if you get bored and need a place to go for vacation, I have a nice wooded lot available with plenty of tents and gear for you to stay in while you paint my two tractors. I have more to add but I can see that the joke pool already hit - bottom...

After reading the very difficult and sad news of Wayne Wilson's (AKA Woodchuckfarmer) passing. I'd like to submit my supporter membership trading card in his honor. I really like Wayne a lot and consider him my friend. Hope this is OK with Rich @rwilson and if so, maybe he'd like to change, edit or add to the information displayed on it or change the picture. Wayne R. Wilson, age 68, of Mansfield, PA, died on Sunday, February 18, 2018 at Robert Packer Hospital, Sayre, PA. He was born on March 19, 1949 in Wellsboro, PA, a son of Richard and Colette (Maige) Wilson. Wayne was the husband of Peggy (Thorpe) Wilson. He retired from Ward Manufacturing on October 31, 2017. Wayne was a US Veteran having served in the Army National Guard. He was an avid tractor collector of Wheel Horse. Wayne enjoyed gardening, tinkering and spending time with his family. He is survived by his wife, Peggy; a son and daughter-in-law, Richard and Jessica Wilson of Mansfield, PA; a daughter and son-in-law, Maria and Jeremy Turner of Mainesburg, PA; six grandchildren, Taylor, Robert, Nathan, Ryan Turner, Raegan, Brycelynn Wilson; a brother and sister-in-law, Terry and Cindy Wilson of Mansfield, PA; a special niece, DeLecia Plouse of Ridgebury, PA, a special dog, Bruty. Family and friends are invited to call on Thursday, February 22, 2018 from 1PM to 3PM and 5PM to 7PM at the Buckheit Funeral Chapel and Crematory, Inc., 637 S. Main St., Mansfield,PA. In lieu of flowers memorial contributions may be made to the American Cancer Society, 1948 E 3rd St, Williamsport, PA 17701. www.buckheitfcandcrematory.com

Far be it from me to sear a horrible image in a young man’s mind!

I am just filling in for @squonk clown duties. I think he is hibernating in New York some where.

My bottom is in sad shape but I think it is due to age. My wrinkles have wrinkles.

I remember that your dads face was one of those familiar faces I always looked forward to seeing at the show. Perhaps this year he and Cecil with be looking down on us at the show with big smiles knowing that these little tractors have brought together some great salt of the earth people. God bless you, your dad and family.

Hmmm.... Note to self: Invite Jim to Maine to prove I'm a nice guy..... but... don't unlock shed.... yeah yeah... sounds good.

Hey Rich, I was so sorry to hear about your dad's passing the other night. He was one of the first people I met the first time I went to the big show, and it was always a pleasure to see his friendly face and have a little chat. I know you and your wonderful family miss him, and you can tell we do too.

I have 3 C160's, one with a replacement magnum. Like'em all. I prefer the old style tractor. Never was crazy about the "bandit" hood's. Hey, that might catch on

Maybe I'm just not very good at adjusting points and timing. I'll try some more. Here are pictures. I put a lot of time and effort both WHs, so I hate to let either one go. I also have a 1257 partly restored. If I can get that running, maybe that's the one that will go. Just not enough space and time for all of them. It's taking too much time away from my fishing. Thanks everyone for your input. Jim

Once I went golfing with a local pro. I ask him about the brand of club he preferred. His advice; "when you look down you have to like what you see"! All will mostly get the job done. What we think doesn't mater, it is how comfortable you are in what you are using. I think you already know the answer. If your looking for a survey between K and M, Its M for me. The lighter flywheel and other updates give it an edge in power recovery. I repowered a C120 with a M12 and it is amazing.

I'm a K and C man all the way Jim. I like to have the ability to adjust points and carbs. Dislikes of the 312s (and I have two) those puny 6"wheels and the under seat fuel tanks.

I got just about everybrand imaginable. Snap -on,Mac, Proto, Craftsman. For HAVC it's Ritchie/Yellojacket and JB. I got lots of HF stuff. I bought an needle scaler from them that works fantastic. I'm only particular on 3 things. Tool Bags are Veto Pro Pac. Meters Fluke and Fieldpiece and pipe wrenches are Rigid. Pliers I have Knipex and Channellock. No cheapie pliers that spread and slip the joint and give you a blood blister.

Another vote for the mighty K. I've only had K's, 3 of them. Very impressed with the torque and love the sound. I can see the "point" about the points and the maintenance but it doesn't bother me. Also, I like the older model tractor's style.

K series all day

I know that most people don't think much of Harbor Freight, and for many good reasons, but I have had very good luck with their tools marked with the "Pittsburgh" brand. They're probably made by the same company that makes some big-name brands, but at a much lower price (especially when they're on sale. Check them out. Jim

Gives it character...awesome Dells

AMCRULES Trading card is ready to print. Showing both front and back with his permission. Remeber that you can have as much or as little info on the back as you prefer. I will be running a test print of the first few cards to verify alignment and print quality and will post images of the actual cards at that time. All cards will be on 16 pt card stock with a gloss finish. This project will keep me plenty busy getting the artwork correct so please get your pictures and info to me by May 1st .

Here are my favorite pliers. They were a gift from an uncle that retired from a plant in Colorado where they were made. There is no name on them because they were the set he used in the plant. I have had them for over 25 years.

Rust-oleum aircraft remover. Spray it on wait 10-15 min and wire brush the paint off. Available at Wal-Mart for about $9.

I agree the addition of what I call belt brakes need to be added. Adding a flat piece of metal over the top of the pulley circled in yellow on the lower picture will also serve as a belt brake. Take a piece of sheet metal about 1" wide. Bend a 90 degree angle in it and bolt it on using the same bolt that holds the pulley on. When mounted the metal should clear the top of the belt on the pulley by 1/16" to 1/8". I made mine using a flat piece of metal & some round stock but a flat piece with a 90 bent in it would be much easier. Also note the belt brakes near the drive pulley, these give the out side of the belt some thing to rub on and stop the belt when tension is released. It also looks like you have constant tension on the pulley arm that I have circled in white. Your clutch pulley appears to be the one circled in yellow. If this is set up the way it appears, the pulley circled in white will continue to add belt tension after the pulley circled in yellow releases the tension. This will not allow the belt to loosen. Correct me if my observation is wrong.

I will be there till Sunday 😁

Beautiful day here in SW Pennsylvania, so I decided to try out my multi-tasking and started into something completely different from what I had been working on, so I tore into the transmission. Thought it would be a good day to sit outside and clean parts and not have to worry about slopping oil all through the basement. I believe that as of now I have every possible nut, bolt, pin, part, etc. removed from the tractor and short of the engine, not much has been reassembled yet. I think my wife thinks I'm totally nuts and that this thing will never get put back together because it seems that there are now parts scattered everywhere through the house! I think I read somewhere in another forum that one of our members likes to work in organized chaos, well that is kind of where I'm at and oh what fun it is. Anyway, a couple of new pics and also a couple of questions concerning the tranny. Overall, the transmission was about what I expected to find: Then, when I started removing the gears, I found some metal shavings on the end of one shaft and in the cup of the needle bearings: As soon as I picked up the case to inspect further, I found out why: So, this brings me to my first question. I know that I need at least this needle bearing, I think it is a #1532 if my eyes are not crossed on the parts diagram. What do you guys think, should I just try to find one of these, or should I go the whole route and replace ALL of them? I see that wheelhorseman sells a complete kit, which I am going to need new seals, gasket, boot, etc. anyway, but I was curious what you all normally do as far as replacing bearings. All of the other needle bearings "appear" to be OK, and the 1533 ball bearings are as tight as a frog's behind so I think I'm good there. I just hate the thought of replacing what may be good OEM bearings with what are probably all aftermarket bearings if there is nothing wrong with what's in there now. Or do I just assume that mine are all worn to some degree and on the verge of failure anyway? I may not be able to find just the one bearing that I need anyway. Thoughts Please? Question 2, How much wear is acceptable wear on gear teeth? I attached a couple of pics of my 3523 high gear and the 3524 low gear. Both have wear on the ends of the teeth. I believe I read somewhere that if the tractor tends to pop out of high gear, that the 3523 is the probable culprit. I never noticed this happening on my tractor, but I hate to put it all back together and find out that I do have a problem. Again, I see that wheelhorseman sells the 3523, but I don't even know that the 3524 is available anywhere. All of the other tranny gears have some wear, but these two are the worst. So, should I at least replace the 3523 or am I over analyzing this whole thing since I don't recall any issues with the tractor anyway? Here is the 3523, all of the inner gear corners are pretty well rounded. I took a photo of the opposite side (outer teeth) which are also rounded, but I didn't attach it because when I went to upload it I saw it was out of focus and didn't show up anyway. And the 3524, from both sides: Mostly wondering what all of you have done in the past with your own tractors with these issues. Again, all so much in advance for your thoughts on this.

Oops! I wasn't supposed to mention that in public.

The 857 turned out great , when you have time I have 4 units down here that could use your help

Looking good, need to ask @BOB ELLISON if he can hook you up with a seat back.