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Pulled from home 8mm movie, spring, 1962 wheelhorse.mp4 I can't seen to add comments to answer questions as normal on this thread. So, don't know why it will not play on an ipad, but since there are only 15 or 20 of them in existence, well,.... secondly this is ME, when I was 7, keep in mind I was 6-5 in the 7th grade!! Mom was out raking the yard, and Dad had just got his new fancy 8mm camera, so he was out filming the action!!

Finally I have a few pics from the 416-8 I picked up last weekend. Only the seat pan is pitted so I think the original had been damaged. I had written that the PO had thought the starter had issues but it does crank. Issue is electrical! Think I will need to rewire a lot if not all. Got it to crank a bit but it quit just when it was ready to come back to life! Hope to short the switch so I can get it running so I can start in on it when time allows. They were asking 750.00 but in the end I got it for 550.00 with a 42" deck, dozer blade and grader blade.

Well I took another crack at the clutch linkage and I'm glad I took the time to do so. I was able to make it work runningbit inside the tunnel so I won't have to cut access hole in the fender. Also got brake linkage all set. The belt guard is going to be a project in and of itself. I'll get started on that tomorrow. In the pic the parking brake is set which is why the pedal leans forward.

I prefer just to wipe them down occasionally with boiled linseed oil. try on a small area first to see if you will like it. Gives it that antique look. A sample here but might not be able to tell from pics.

I picked up this old 312- about two years ago for $50. Had three flat tires, missing pieces, messed up wiring, and lots of dirt. I had to drag it out of an old shed that was about to collapse onto it. Lots of cleaning, parts, paint, and work on it over the past two years, probably more than I realize if I add it up. It wasn't high priority, because I had other WH projects that I valued more. Figured I'd just fix it up to sell. But now that it's running, I hate to get rid of it. Funny how you become attached to it after putting a lot of work into it. It runs and looks great, so I might put a plow on it this winter.

Always looking for good used tools. Found this set on cl a month ago. Was the guys grandfathers. Tools look new lightly if ever used. 1/2" drive sockets sae with ratchet set of comb wrenches proto 1/4" shallow and deep sockets 4 Pratt reed screw drivers kromedge dovetail saw And some other good stuff. All USA made

Picked up this little Commando 8 today. I looked at it more as buying a mid-mount grader blade, a Lawn Ranger dozer blade, and getting the tractor for free. The tired old girl may not be worth much more than that. In addition to being rusty and worn, all the tires are shot (I took 2 fronts with me just to make it easier to roll onto the trailer), the engine is locked up, and one front spindle is even seized in the axle and won't turn. There are a few good parts there, but probably a bunch of broken bolts and seized parts in the way of getting them off. While this tractor may be lacking in physical value, it certainly has an interesting story. The seller was actually quite fond of the tractor, and was embarrassed about letting it get to this condition. He was quite a talker, and we ended up chatting about the history of the tractor and how it intertwined with his own life story. After hearing it all, I feel a bit reluctant to part it out (it IS in pretty rough shape though) so in honor of the tough little guy, I thought I would tell it's story here. The tractor started life in 1968. It was sold by the dealer in Decatur, IL. The seller recounted that the dealer started by selling Wheel Horses as a travelling salesman, and that Wheel Horse convinced him to set up a store with a showroom, and would give him a credit back on his purchases to reinvest in the store. The Commando 8 was originally sold to an older gentleman, who unfortunately had a stroke not long after getting it. The stroke wasn't fatal, but he was no longer able to use the manual lift so he traded the Commando on one with hydraulic lift. Mark, the seller, served in the Army in Vietnam driving an M113 armored personnel carrier. He showed me pictures of his tank after it hit a land mine, which he referred to as "his last day in Vietnam". He later mentioned injuries he sustained in that attack to both knees and his foot. He was rightfully proud of his service and enjoys reconnecting with the men he served with. He showed me some pictures of incredible scale models he had built of the M113's, and planned to give one to each of the surviving guys he served with when he meets up with them again in a few weeks. Very cool. When he returned home from Vietnam in 1971, he decided that the old Montgomery Wards riding mower he had been using just wasn't up to the task of mowing the rough yard he had. He wanted a real garden tractor with a floating mower deck. He and the Wheel Horse dealer worked out a deal on a slightly used Commando 8. He didn't take it with him right away, and when he returned to get it, he was a little early and caught the dealer using it with the grader blade to level the gravel in his parking lot. The dealer was embarrassed to get caught using a sold tractor, so he threw in the grader blade as part of the deal. The dozer blade was a later purchase from a friend who also had a Wheel Horse. It sounded like the Commando had a fairly active life. It's primary job was mowing. Mark mentioned his wife used it to mow and one time she ran it out of oil and the engine locked up. He said he took it to a machine shop and after getting into it they found that other than a new piston and rings, all the block really needed was honing and it ran fine after that. Mark told stories about using the grader blade to level various projects, and how he used it to help dig a basement by hauling cart-fulls of dirt out of the hole. Mark was proud of his tractor and even though he wasn't a collector, he was a Wheel Horse fan and seemed to know quite a bit about Wheel Horse tractors and company history. He held on to it planning to restore the tractor "someday", but realized he wasn't ever going to get around to it, and even if he did it was going to take alot more work than he initially thought. (He also seemed excited about freeing up some garage space.) He enjoyed seeing a few pictures of my restored Wheel Horses. As I was tying down the tractor on the trailer, he went into the house and came back with a Wheel Horse hat he had purchased a few years back that he wanted me to have. I hadn't planned on spending 2 hours picking up the tractor, but fortunately it was a rare day where I had taken the day off and didn't have anywhere I really had to be. Sure, I had other things I could have done, but I could tell he was really enjoying having a captive audience, and to be honest, I found his stories interesting. This long, holiday weekend will be a good one to see if the tractor has any life left in it, and what scars it might have from it's life experiences.

Well, I've been waiting for a while to take a little trip up the road. Going to see my friend @oldredrider in the morning. Wish I had time to go on up and see @limited12, but it will have to be a quick day trip! Gonna pick up a couple of new toys! What better way to start a long weekend than with a horse rustling trip!! I'll post some pics of my haul later tomorrow! Good night, time for a little shut-eye!

Okay, I have a model 400 and a model 401 that I am considering leaving in it's "work clothes". I have searched but have not found a definitive method to preserve the patina. So, to the experts, I ask, what is the best method to use? Both of these do have a small amount of dark red oxide primer on them that blends in. Should I just leave that as well or try and remove it? Knowing the person I bought these from, I suspect it is there because of possible metal repairs, so don't want to expose bare metal. Model 400 with white seat on the trailer, model 401 with red seat off the trailer. Also, what is your opinion regarding the rims, the 400 has refinished rims in white, but the rears on the 401 are somewhat rusty, leave as is, or clean them up and spray all of them in a linen beige? Please share your methods and tips.

Just choose your method of cleaning first... I like to start by pressure washing mine, then a light buff job using a red scotch brite pad... then seal it with the Johnson's paste wax. You can take all, or none of the rust off, it's up to you...I prefer mine smooth to the touch. It's also OK if you get down to bare metal in places...the Johnson's will protect it. My "custom" 551 has been bare metal for over two years now.

Back in 2012 I bought a Work Horse 700 from a friend. It was not running with a newer 8HP Techumseh retrofitted. I got it running and mowed with it a little bit before I ripped it apart and did a full restoration. The tractor turned out so beautiful I did not want to use it. So it sat in the garage for two years until I sold it and put the money towards a Harley. So I went the last two years without a tractor. I recently shopped around looking at John Deere X300-series tractors and really liked what I rode, but did not want to pay that much money. Last weekend my friend went to a show in Portland, Indiana and brought me a tractor. I am now the proud owner of a 857! I was intending on having a B or C series, but I could not resist another short frame. It runs and mows great. It appears to be very complete and originally, but could use some cleaning up. Somebody brushed paint all over and it is driving me crazy! It also came with a plow, rear lift, and the original cigar lighter. My plans are to remove the brushed-over paint to reveal the original patina, new tires and wheel paint, redo the dash, and some other new parts. The original deck works well, but is rotted in the from center - so I need to find a new deck. My friend picked up another deck, but it is not the same and does not look usable. What deck do I have mounted on the tractor, is it a 5-1362?

I prefer none of the above methods DIRTY WORK CLOTHES

You did well and that model midmount is in high demand.Luck,JAinVA

Seems like a good buy. Here is the manual with wiring diagrams. (hope I guessed right on the year)

@AMC RULES, I use that on my refinished gun stocks, love the smell. Do you use it over the rusty areas as well? If you didn't figure it out, I am asking about the patina because of your urging not to refinish them!

No type of silicate should ever be used for blasting . Now , that said I have used it in the past quite a lot and it does work well - we have 4 very large pits near this area so the stuff is pretty cheap . Using any type of silicate requires the use of a respirator and honestly you need organic rated cartridges to really be safe - the normal R100 series dust filters are not good enough . I've watched several of our Retirees die a slow death from silicosis - no human should ever die that way but years ago they didn't use any sort of protection from the stuff - just didn't know any better . Due to all the training we have to carry and certifications to work in my industry (Union Laborer) I have the equipment here to prevent problems - but that equipment is seriously expensive . Last set of cartridges I bought were nearly $100 alone - those are just for painting with enamel hardener and reducers . Having full HazMat , IMSHA , OSHA certifications keeps us up on industry changes and requirements for protection , not to mention being educated on what can slowly or quickly kill you . Now , as to what the average guy can use in a blast pot , safely - Be careful buying coal slag - it's cheap on average but will contain traces of silicates . Quality brands will be lower amounts but it's always there - so wear protection . Do not rely on cheap dust masks - they will not protect you from lead or organics in existing paints - remember the age of our tractors and some related equipment - even trailers . Older paints can contain lead and several other bad elements - so when you blast it the stuff becomes airborne in small enough particles to be ingested into your lungs/sinus systems . Same with zinc based galvanizing compounds which can be even worse . Wear a respirator and read up or get training on proper and correct mask fitting from a local Fire Dept - they can show you in short order the proper fitment of a half mask . There are times you can't wear a blast hood - when using a grinding shield or similar a lot more particles end up in your face , so proper fitment is very important or you're wasting your time . Ear plugs are also a must - the noise alone is bad enough but getting that fine dust in your ears is not fun , nor easy to flush out and can cause infections , been there - done that on a big pipeline project . As an example of grit size / dust content and results - Black Diamond from TSC in coarse grade , very little fines (dust) versus the Black Blast from Menards - around a buck a bag difference in price per 50lb bags . The excessive dust in the Black Blast from Menards means it will not cut nearly as efficient , especially on heavy mill scale and rust - nor cut through heavy paint runs as is the case with many trailers . Not to mention it takes forever to get any decent results . Keep in mind that the more coarse the media , the larger the nozzle size required to use it - the coarse Black Diamond at that heavy grit range takes a 5/32" tip size at minimum . Testing last night after waiting all day for UPS to show up (they are usually here by 10:30 , but didn't come until 16:10 !!) wasted a whole work day in perfect weather , but the new nozzles at that size work excellent and don't run the compressor out of the cfm needed to make the pot work correctly . The lighter media from Menards can use 1/8" or even smaller nozzles , but will not do the heavy work such as this extremely thick , rusty mill scale that they painted over - I'll try to get some pics later today to show the results of the heavier grit media from TSC - it works 3 times as fast and cuts right through that scale in a hurry , far better results and much less overall dust . It's nearly impossible to photograph the detail in the metal , but I do not recommend this heavier media for use on thinner sheet metal - you'll have to fill in the surface with a lot of builder/primer to get a decent finish job on your paint . On really thin metal it could actually cut through or even warp it from heat - yes metal can get hot from the abrasive action of the media . Here's the mods to the Clarke pot setup - first is the modified feed piping and the wye fitting to aid in better flow mixture of the media into the air stream - 3/8"x1/4"NPT "T" style high flow plug fitting to get better cfm through the pot system - The older style water separators flow better than the newer ones - you may need to upgrade the separator if you have a newer pot or one of the off branded ones . Most of the culprit is the moisture wicking coalescent element inside - they are too fine to allow enough cfm to flow through and plug up easily . High cfm rating separators can be had in 1/2-3/4NPT sizes pretty reasonable - just make sure parts can be had later . The business end of the blast hose setup - This is not a dead man valve setup - so be aware if you happen to lose control of this thing it can seriously hurt you - sandblasting streams will remove clothing and skin very quickly and the results are not fun to look at . This setup is just a simple hose adapter , 1/2"NPTx3/4"NPT adapter, 3/4" steel ball valve and the nozzle adapter sold by the auction site seller . The nozzle is the common C series 3-3/4"L X 1-1/8" base diameter and 5/8" tip diameter tapered cone nozzle style . These are high velocity venturi style nozzles , hence the tapered portion which will accelerate the air volume/pressure and concentrate the media into a blast stream . Far more efficient than the usual straight nose wide pattern or short nose style nozzles sold with many of these blast pots . The last 1/8" nozzle ran through 1,100lbs of finer media before any noticeable change in tip sizing - it's out to .138" compared to the starting point of .125" (1/8") . Very little wear versus how much work it's done already and lots of life left . The new nozzles I buy are now from McMaster and are ultra hardened ceramic USA made quality nozzles - around $11.42 each and will outlast any of the small nozzles 10:1 easily . McMaster does sell the real-deal dead man valve setup for use with these nozzles - it's right at $100 and probably worth the investment just for safety's sake . They also sell the rubber stop blocks for that valve setup at a minor cost for 3-packs . This stuff , while expensive will put a cheap blast pot nearly on par with commercial equipment , albeit a couple thousand dollars cheaper . The whole key to doing this stuff is having an air compressor that can handle the task and push enough cfm to do the job . It's also very important to note I'm running large diameter piping , hoses and fittings . At the smallest point I use 1/4" I/M plugs and couplers for most small air tools and such by running an adapter to go from the larger high-flow 3/8" "T" style plugs/couplers . The smallest hose I run on anything in the system is 3/8" . Piping system is 3/4" and the main hoses are 1/2" with 3/8"NPT ends , not the common 1/4" hose ends . This makes a huge difference in flow and heat back to the compressor source and keeps the cfm high enough to do this type of work . I'm also using a second 60 gallon reservoir tank outside to aid in storage to take some loading off the pump . Biggest trick is trying to keep the water out when it's humid and lately that's been a real issue . The pipe leg drops in the basement catch a lot of it and 3 different system filters along the way help as the air stream cools from the distance traveled to the blast area . A proper chiller and air/water separator would be the ultimate setup but even smaller systems cost several thousand dollars . If you're really serious about doing larger jobs it would be much better to rent a trailer mounted rotary pump setup at least 85cfm in size - then you'd have unlimited air flow for an even larger blast pot system . I missed out on a nice 85cfm trailer unit last year - it sold for only $800 due to the engine not running , which I can fix easily enough . I'd really rather not do large jobs anyway - so no big loss there . If I were younger I'd be very interested in buying into a full trailer mounted dustless blast system - but not at my age , lol . Red garnet cuts great , but in cabinets it's really tough to keep up with the dust and have a large enough dust collector that can handle enough air flow to keep the cabinet cleared . The Scat HEPA blast collector would work well , but they are around $400 for a decent sized one . Just a heads up too - shop vacs aren't a good idea for dust removal - their motors and filters are not rated to handle this type of dust and will basically spew a lot of the most harmful small particles into the air around that vac . Yes , using a respirator when even doing cabinet work is a good idea - no cabinet system is perfectly sealed unless it's a dedicated commercial cabinet with a matching dust collector and protection must still be used when servicing the system . An alternative to garnet , which is expensive for what it is would be to use angular shaped glass - it will remove the heaviest rust scale and paint and still leave an acceptable surface finish for painting . I generally run 40/80 glass beads in my big shop cabinet with good results and it's cost isn't bad . I'd never recommend using play sand - it contains a certain percentage of clay - that is what will bind it together and it also attracts moisture like a sponge . If you want to keep costs down , use a very fine coal slag and a small cone nozzle setup or Scat's trigger type blast gun for siphon systems and a large, clean tarp . The material can be re-used and screened to remove dirt and recycled . Be aware that this will create more potentially harmful dust since you're adding in paint dust , rust , galvanizing/zinc coatings and such, so again - respirator is a must . One other thing I have not touched upon but it's important in both cabinets as well as outdoor siphon/pot blasting - pressures . At most I run 100psi of air pressure , regulated at the compressor's outlet by a filter/regulator . Using excessive pressure over 90psi will quickly erode gun parts , blast hoses and in cabinet systems it will destroy the media much quicker . If you're not getting good results it's a lack of cfm and velocity in your system , not a lack of pressure . On large commercial pot systems we use at Work we only run 90psi on everything - it's the industry limit . Results come easier the more cfm used and the better the nozzle design - hence my upgrading the pot system as well as my cabinet to better nozzles . The Scat blast gun in the cabinet (more pics to come) uses a tungsten carbide nozzle that is designed to provide a much better wear rate and keep the stream shaped correctly . On that type of blast guns it's also important to have the correct air jet and they still wear and have to be changed . Cheap siphon guns sold for bucket use have their air jet built into the handle so once they wear much the gun is useless . Once the air jet is worn you'll also wear out tips faster - so keep that in mind too . One of these Scat 35 series guns , a suction hose and mixer and a bucket for media with a decent compressor could get you started and provide much better results than the crap Campbell setup at home and farm stores http://www.tptools.com/S-35-Series-Trigger-Operated-Power-Gun,8592.html?b=d*8026 http://www.tptools.com/Siphon-Hose-and-Pickup-Tubes.html Replacement nozzles and air jets are cheap and you can size them to fit your air system's cfm capability easily with some research . Anyway , hands are tired and I've got to get out there and get to work - more pics/info to come... Sarge

What are you getting rid of sqonk? Are you retiring to Aruba?

I was working out of 2 toolchests in my home shop. Was ok at my old house but I'm trying to consolidate, be more efficient, something like that. I had a nice homak set I got for free years ago. Cleaned and painted it. Worked great. More tools, found a proto chest and a duplex top chest. The proto was beat the duplex was real nice and not a common box either. Started looking last week and found a real nice 3 piece Mac set 50th anniversary. 33" wide with the side locker. $500 and an hour ride later it's in my garage. Couldn't be happier. Made real well very heavy. This will be my sons some day with the wheel horse

Now, this is a work tractor, not a show tractor. But Wheelhorse aren't box store junk and never were. I take pride in my equipment and trucks, none of which were bought new but I've always bought for quality and good equipment holds up that's why I bought my 3/12. Was a little dirty and dusty so today I decided to give it a late summer cleanup. Wash, scrub, polishing compound and a coat of wax. I washed and dried it then rubbed some mothers step 1 on it then johnsons paste wax per suggestion on the site. That's a blast from the past, my nana used that on everything! Im happy with the results. Still has some scratches but I'm ok with them. I got this tractor a little over a year ago from the original owner's son. I still am impressed with not only the craftsmanship but the performance and the mowing quality is as good or better than any commercial walkbehind I've ever run.

Nope - too many ditches to cross on the farm Just have to wait a little while to find out! Two that I don't have examples of. Gotta kick this horse habit. I'm going to have to store these in a stable away from the rest of the herd. Hope they don't get lonely when I get them home!

If you look at the extended inner race of the bearing as you turn the shaft the OD of the inner race is not centered on the shaft. The loose collar has a matching off-centre counterbore that fits over the one on the bearing. The collar should also have a hole on the outside so you can use a hammer and punch to turn the collar to literally jamb to two eccentrics. You tap the collar in the direction of shaft rotation. This all locks the bearing to the shaft. Then tighten the set screw. Make sense? Garry

Id run them! Look good and something different

Both of them look great just the way they are!

My favorite product for preserving original paint.

Nice! Who's the young man at the controls, and what's the story?

I do need to get out more.

Thanks Fred. It's been an interesting storm., This sounds hard to believe, but most area of Texas didn't,t receive much rain at all But the poor souls within a 100 miles of the coast got dumped on. While we didn't have much rain at our dams/lakes on the middle of the (Texas) Colorado River, the lower part of the river had record flooding. My hometown of LaGrange got around 24 inches in 3 days. The river there peaked at 52 ft , 125,000 CFS. Our farm there is over a mile from the river but the river backed up the creek that runs through it to cover half the farm. My tower deer stand along the creek probable had 5 ft of water over the roof. Thankfully all my family stayed dry and no significant losses My sister in Houston had water within inches of coming in her house, but thankfully she to loo stayed dry' but trapped in her neighborhood

my father in law past away 2 yrs ago was over there today and one of his old buddies stop by and we were trying to start the JD B but seems the mag no good and my mother in law told me that theses tractors are now mine .at the moment i have no where to store them so they will stay there for now the one is a 1937 JD B unstyled and the other is a 1938 JD L unstyled they both been sitting for about 20 yrs. the L will start and run but the B wont. my father in laws buddy wants me to get the B running for this fall a local club here has a plow day this fall and wants me to bring the B and plow. was looking on tractor data .com and this B is only rated at 12 horse at the draw bar hell that is what my wheel horse is but the B probably has a lot more torque to it. he says it will pull a 2 14" bottom plow the one picture is his old butt buggy he made to get around at the shows it is a choremaster i had to get it out and make a couple laps around the house he has a straight pipe no muffler and it is a little loud.

Hello fellas, Thinking a bit into the future for the garden and was wondering if anyone has any good ideas for removing rock and gravel from garden soil? I can always make a large sifter and go section by section. but if I could make something to speed the process up by pulling it through the soil first, that would be excellent. Thanks.

Great work and engineering Aldon. Noticed the auxiliary pulley on the transmission shaft. Plan on running a tiller or.....what kind of surprise implement on your beast?

Not sure how many members are from there but will be thinking of all you people out in Texas and Louisiana. Hurricanes are no fun but 20-30" of rain is even worse. Hope all of you stay safe and be careful out there. Praying for your safety!

Labor of love Jim... looks like you made a silk purse out of a sow's ear!

Ok, thank you guys for your help

Rich, I believe the location is also required in for sale posts. Someone correct me if I'm wrong please.

UPDATE: used it tonight for over an hour, ran like a top. thanks again

There is a 15 amp fuse that feeds the PTO and the headlights and Volt/Hour meters. There should be a Pink wire from the fuse that goes to the headlight switch and then to the meters; and another that goes to the clutch. After giving every inch of both pink wires a careful examination if you haven't found the problem I would remove the pink wire from the clutch and see if the short clears. If it has not cleared then remove the pink wire to the light switch. hope this helps.

She's almost too pretty to work that hard.

Caught this one on a break at a worksite this morning. Had to go around the block and take a picture.👍 Obviously it was supposed to say blackhood, not blackwood...autocorrect kills me

That is way too big a brush for that potty!

Yep, it is an assembly for each pack.

I'm missing something here, where's this beach ball and bikini you guys are talking about? And move over, I wanna see too! How many of you guys are Googling "Mary Travers Wheel Horse" right now?

That is the problem with today's computer literate generation, they have what you need but the box of knowledge in front of them prevents them from thinking! since you will be rewiring the tractor it hasn't got to be an OEM direct replacement plug and play piece. A generic five pin 12 volt relay and a prewired socket to fit it is all you need and any auto parts store will have them. They have a 12 volt coil and a common input and a choice of NO and NC outputs.

Kohler points have a little piece of paper in the bag stating clean contacs before installing.

Your tiller is a 1975 and will work on B-series through 1977, all C-series as well as 3/4/500 series. It will also work on the older Raiders, Chargers, etc.

Always pull clean paper thru them before use. Sometimes new points have a slip of stiff paper in the package.

You don't have it mounted properly as other members have pointed out. I don't think you need new parts. First, the lift bar peg (on the tractor) needs to go into the oblong slot on top of the mower deck carriage. The deck has to be slid in from the right side of the tractor to do this. Then you need to center the cross shaft (of the same carriage assembly) on your deck between the mid mount attach-a-matic bracket on the tractor. Make sure the lock lever moves all the way back under the cross shaft until the release pin pops out and you should be good to go. There is also a u shaped alignment piece that needs to go in it's proper place also on the carriage assembly. I can see why it keeps falling down. Study the details of N3PUY's pics and you'll get it on there correctly. He is correct about the gap. IMO I doubt it is bent though. It looks to me like the shaft needs to be moved to the left in that pic where he points out the gap. I've found an easy way for me to mount the deck is after sliding it underneath the tractor and putting the lift bar peg in the slot, I stand directly in front of the tractor facing it, I lean over and lay my chest on the hood then push up on the lift handle with my left hand hand while lining up the deck carriage assembly into the attach-a-matic with my right hand.

In Akron, Ohio there is a company Akron Wheel Bearing. They can cross reference any company's bearing and if you have the old bearing they will match it for about a third of the price. They sell all over the world.

Thank You. We're about 230 miles Nort of there. We expect rain but not the high total forecast for the coast.

I am starting to think the more I run this thing the stronger it sounds and louder it gets

Well received tires today and mounted them. And got my pipe to make the header last night. Had to buy a 10' length lol