Leaderboard

The sad thing to this is, you better check and cover your backside. It's the world we live in and if someone smells money by trying to bring some frivolous law suit there is a good chance they will. Now I know there are good people out there that say I would never do that or that won't happen to me. Well if some mother lets little Johnny jump up on your tractor at the show and he falls off and gets hurt and lands on your sign that says please keep off. Good chance the mom is gonna go head hunting and lawyer searching. What was meant to be a innocent good time can lead to life changing event. It's sad but that's the way it is now. That's why a lot of events and shows have have been canceled all over the country because the cost of liability. Sad state of affairs it is.

Exactly, plus it's simple and the photos stay here and don't disappear. But you can always use a free service like photobucket.com to host your pics online and then link as many as you want in your posts here. It's just more of a hassle.

Flag is used , the flag of the most enjoyable for me ... Today the weather is not super : lots of snow , wind and minus 5C , but it works - carries bricks .

To be sure it's working again.......send me $20.....I'll let ya know if it made it to my account. For testing purposes of course . Mike......

Storage cost money and the more photos you post the more is used. You could pull down some old ones and resubmit at a lower resolution or just become a supporter.

We see pics on here of kids on tractors. Some way to small to be operating anything. They are cute but an accident waiting to happen. someone says something and it's, "don't tell me how to raise my kids!" or "I started driving tractors when I was 3!" Times have changed. The Big Show can be perilous. Lots of kids "Ramming Around unsupervised from little up to teenage years. Almost saw an elderly couple get run over last year! One of these days it's gonna happen. I just hope it's after I'm too old to go to the show anymore because when it does, the show will be no more.

5-12-1963 Bob Dylan walks out on The Ed Sullivan Show By the end of the summer of 1963, Bob Dylan would be known to millions who watched or witnessed his performances at the March on Washington, and millions more who did not know Dylan himself would know and love his music thanks to Peter, Paul and Mary’s smash-hit cover version of “Blowin’ In The Wind.” But back in May, Dylan was still just another aspiring musician with a passionate niche following but no national profile whatsoever. His second album, The Freewheelin’ Bob Dylan, had not yet been released, but he had secured what would surely be his big break with an invitation to perform on The Ed Sullivan Show. That appearance never happened. On May 12, 1963, the young and unknown Bob Dylan walked off the set of the country’s highest-rated variety show after network censors rejected the song he planned on performing. The song that caused the flap was “Talkin’ John Birch Paranoid Blues,” a satirical talking-blues number skewering the ultra-conservative John Birch Society and its tendency to see covert members of an international Communist conspiracy behind every tree. Dylan had auditioned “John Birch” days earlier and had run through it for Ed Sullivan himself without any concern being raised. But during dress rehearsal on the day of the show, an executive from the CBS Standards and Practices department informed the show’s producers that they could not allow Dylan to go forward singing “John Birch.” While many of the song’s lyrics about hunting down “reds” were merely humorous—”Looked up my chimney hole/Looked down deep inside my toilet bowl/They got away!“—others that equated the John Birch Society’s views with those of Adolf Hitler raised the fear of a defamation lawsuit in the minds of CBS’s lawyers. Rather than choose a new number to perform or change his song’s lyrics—as the Rolling Stones and the Doors would famously do in the years to come—Dylan stormed off the set in angry protest. Or so goes the legend that helped establish Dylan’s public reputation as an artist of uncompromising integrity. In reality, Bob Dylan was polite and respectful in declining to accede to the network’s wishes. “I explained the situation to Bob and asked him if he wanted to do something else,” recalls Ed Sullivan Show producer Bob Precht, “and Bob, quite appropriately, said ‘No, this is what I want to do. If I can’t play my song, I’d rather not appear on the show.'” It hardly mattered whether Dylan’s alleged tantrum was fact or reality. The story got widespread media attention in the days that followed, causing Ed Sullivan himself to denounce the network’s decision in published interviews. In the end, however, the free publicity Bob Dylan received may have done more for his career than his abortive national-television appearance scheduled for this day in 1963 ever could have.

I have a one million dollar umbrella policy added to my home owner's policy that is an "all perils" coverage. The annual premium is about $120. Please don't line up in front of my 953 at the "Big Show" hoping to collect!

The 9699 hood was used on many models from 1970 to 1982. The list is long but it does include some Raiders and C-160's. In order to give you an accurate answer, I would need to know the ID numbers from the Raider and C-160 in question.

Exactly correct. Most, if not all, home insurance policies are written this way. Something happens on your own property, covered. Take the tractor, golf cart, atv, go-cart, etc off your land and you have no coverage. This includes while transporting. This goes for damage to your tractor as well as any liability or medical injury to others. If your home policy excludes coverage, your umbrella will not cover it either. Umbrellas only cover what the underlying insurance policies cover. Umbrella policies only kick in when the home or auto policy runs out of coverage. If you've been told otherwise, get it in writing or it means nothing at the time of a claim. Don't find out afterwards that you have no coverage when you thought you did. For those of you that have a sizeable collection or valuable/rare tractor, talk to your insurance agent. Most home insurance policies have exclusions or limitations for "collectibles" and limit physical coverage to equipment used for home maintenance. There are companies that offer antique tractor coverage, just like antique vehicles. This would cover your tractors for damage as well as liability at shows, parades, etc. Just speaking from my personal 20 years in the insurance industry. I'm not providing legal advice, just friendly suggestions.

Well, it looks like I'll be at Lowe's early Sat. morning. No, not getting one of those big box mowers - our washer died in the basement. Wife says she can't do without a new one. Don't know why she doesn't want to use a wash board and tub! Given the condition of this machine, Think I'll pass and wait on something a little more deserving. Hope someone gives it a good home! Dell

As long as I have been going to the big show, the staff members have always stressed the old adage "first accident means last show". I certainly don't want to be the one responsible for bringing the Wheel Horse show to an end. I'm not afraid to tell kids and some older guys to slow it down. As far as I know, the WHCC is insured, but it does not cover individuals and their tractors or personal property. I don't have a special or separate policy on my tractors, but my homeowners policy with umbrella will cover me while away from home.

Philip Parry- jones. They where made to last a life time. If you do the P.M.`s I always said if take care of them they will take care of you.

Good info on the second hole in the slider Jim. I think if we keep digging, we will eventually find this belt eating monster. I still don't understand why the one guide bolt is centered in the slot and the other one is bottomed out in the end of the slot. Seems these bolts must be closer together for the system to work properly. Is there another hole in the deck for a guide bolt? BTW, Just so you don't think I gave up on this, I will be off line for a week. I am leaving for my fish camp tomorrow. No WIFI connection at fish camp.

Take a look at the "Rear Axle" page for these Toro models that are cousins to the Springfield tractors https://www.partstree.com/parts/search/models/?searchTerm=55402 There is also a 2nd page for the internals. Garry

Red square have mausoleum with Lenin`s mummy.

I just completed a hub conversion on my 312-8 with 520 front end. Being unable to find 520 front wheels, I decided to go with trailer hubs. I could not find a good write up on the swap, so I am posting this for anyone who wants to do this swap. All parts (minus tires) came to about $100, so the conversion is around the same price as a set of clean 520 rims. Parts List -Trailer Hub Kit, I bought this off Ebay From Elgin Trailer Parts, This includes 2X 1000lb 4 bolt trailer hubs, bearings, 1" x 1.25" seals, and dust caps. (Fits BT8 1" spindle) Cost- 57$ shipped -Wheels, I ordered 5-3/8 x 8 rims (standard for 400 series). A big benefit to trailer hubs is that they accommodate a wide variety of rims/tire sizes. These hubs use a 4 x 4" bolt circle. Cost- 32$ shipped -Spindle Washers, 1" x 1.5" flat washer, 14ga or 18ga. I bought these from lowes but These can be sourced anywhere. Qty 2 needed. -Hub End Washers, .75" x 1.25" flat washer, 14ga or 18ga. I bought these from lowes but These can be sourced anywhere. Qty 2 needed. -Bronze Sleeve Bearing, 1" ID x 1.25" OD x .5" Long, I bought these from Mcmaster-Carr P/N 6391K281 Qty 2 needed. -3/4-16 Slotted Lock Nut, Mine were missing. I bought these from Mcmaster-Carr P/N 95030A270, Qty 2 needed, Sold in 10 pack. Installation is straight forward. The pictures pretty much sum up the steps. The bearing need to be hand packed with grease before assembly. Install the inner bearing before inserting the seal. The hub nuts are not intended to be torques very hard. Just snug them up and install the correct size cotter pin. The hubs are very smooth and solid. I am very happy with the results. Thanks, -Justin

Like many others I enjoy going to shows to see other people's toys as well as show off my toys. At some of the local shows that I visit yearly they have started to require proof of insurance if you plan on using your garden tractor or what ever else you have as a means of transportation on the grounds. Now no one wants to think about their tractors getting damaged, but that risk I am willing to take. Doing bodily damage to someone on the other hand could haunt you for life, mentally and financially. Most shows that I go to have speed limits of 5mph or less, but accidents can still happen. In the past my home owners ins. has been sufficient to cover any proof liability. After an ins. consultation I have now been informed that while I have full coverage on my tractors while they are on my property, there is no coverage after they leave my property. This includes liability. I have not looked into any alternative policies yet but I hope it will not be so expensive that it alters my want to display at shows. It's sad that a person has to actually think about these what ifs, but it is an unfortunate fact of the world we live in. Now I'm not an ins. expert nor do I play one on TV, I just wanted to share my recent information so others would know to check their policies to make sure they are covered in case of an accident. Hope every show is fun and injury free.

First of all let me thank everyone participating in this post not only for your time,opinions, suggestions and help but also for the therapeutic value of all mentioned before. I just go a little insane when I can't understand something and I can't rest until I do. Perhaps thinking about all of the time and expense spent with this deck many would have scrapped it already but that is not possible here. With all of your help this will be solved. So listening to everyone's comments and not having put deck back yet, I removed idler and placed it on the next hole which is about 1"+ forward of the one it was on. That changes things substantially. Spring is now stretched twice as much as before to the point that you really need two people to put belt on. Belt is actually stretched more than when I locked down the adjustment bar. It also changes drastically the positioning of the studs in the elongated bar slot. Everything moved into the other extreme. Now it is not really possible to stretch belt any further. The only way to that now would be to substitute the idler with a larger one. Now I still have the damaged belt on and I am sure that it is longer than it should be. I can see that it is going to be some job trying to put new belt on now. Within the next few days I will be trying it this way. I still have to understand how the cuts on the belt are happening or if it is just the heat that deteriorates the rubber and creates the cracks when it bends backwards over the idler.

checking out c/l Sat night and found an ad that was 10 hrs old for a C195 for a reasonable price so i called figuring it would have been sold, but i called and was surprised to find it was still available. made arrangements to go look at it and told the lady i would be there Sun. morning, afraid somebody might try and sneak in and steal it out from under me but it was still there Sunday so i bought it and brought it home with me, along with an almost nos set of 26x12x12 Goodyear turf tire and rims for a D series tractor. blew almost all my money , but i think it was worth it so what do you guys think of my new black hood. almost forgot it came with a 60" deck that needs a center spindle. there is a lot of play in the bearing. and no 3 point or any other goodies but it has the dual control valve for the 3 point, by the way if it did have a 3 point it wouldn't fit into my enclosed trailer for out of the weather storage. since i have decided to add this to my collection i have lo make some very tough decisions on which tractor or tractors must leave for new homes and hopefully greener pastures. just not enough room to keep them all unfortunately. eric j

Need one of these seven

The Zagray museum operated by the QVEA states on their membership application that the $20 membership dues also includes insurance. http://www.qvea.org/resources/QVEA-Membership-Application.pdf I do not know what that insurance covers but this strategy might be a good idea to address the situation at every show. It will certainly boost membership if they require EVERYONE who drives a tractor to be a member so they are covered with some sort of insurance. No membership, no drive tractor! Personally, I would pay the extra amount for membership if it means I can drive a tractor plus the added benefit of being covered with insurance. Might have to display a tag or something so it's easier to police and enforce. I'm not sure if the coverage can cover the tractor or the person but either way something like this might be an answer.

Found another huge Wheel Horse auction in Ohio of a deceased collector, ART PEOPLES . Sale bill states : "45 WHEEL HORSE LAWN TRACTORS IN ALL SIZES INCLUDING TWIN CYLINDER MODERN ONES, SEVERAL CUB CADETS & JOHN DEERE, LOTS OF ACCESSORIES, ROTO TILLERS, SNOW BLOWERS, WHEEL HORSE PARTS, ENGINES, OLD REPAIR MANUALS, GENERATORS, LOTS OF SCRAP METAL, TIRES & RIMS, LAWN CARTS, LAWN TOOLS, SPRAYERS, YOU NAME IT." Location is about half way between Dayton and Springfield. http://maps.google.com/maps?q=219%20W%2E%20MAIN%20ST%2E%20MEDWAY%2C%20OH Listing: http://www.auctionzip.com/cgi-bin/auctionview.cgi?lid=2713039&kwd=Wheel%20Horse&zip=&category=0&utm_source=azemail&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=alerts Pics: http://www.auctionzip.com/cgi-bin/photopanel.cgi?listingid=2713039&category=0&zip=&kwd=Wheel%20Horse This one looks to be of about same size as the other OH Wheel Horse auction I posted about one months ago. Can't believe this one is scheduled the same day as Portland.

Gotta give credit where due Bob... Garry got me pointed in the right direction

Excellent topic and food for thought. I've been waiting for that huge wind storm to roll through the valley and rip up those canopy tents sending them flying into all those nicely painted horses...or lawn chairs.

I am not a fan of most cure in a can products, (other than Sea Foam). If you don't wish to take the engine apart you could run a 50/50 mix of 30wt and Lucas oil treatment. I have one Kohler that I have ran with this mix for sometime now. Without the Lucas I have noticeable smoke, with the Lucas there is little to no smoke. Lucas works great as an assembly lube also.

Please check your umbrella policies. I too have an umbrella policy and was told that this covered my liability no matter where I was on the planet. This is true I am covered for any personal liability except when it involves "any motor or engine propelled vehicle or machine designed for movement on land." For that type of vehicle/machine (tractor) there is no coverage for physical damage or liability when the item is taken off the residence premises. It is very sad that we have to cover ourselves like this, but it is a fact of life. Just want people to check all the angles of their policy, it's much better to know before you need it.

Just another insurance suggestion.... For those of you who have umbrella policies...Umbrella policies only kick in when there is a "covered" claim on an underlying policy. IF your home insurance policy does not cover your tractors or their liability away from your home, there would be no umbrella coverage at a show. Also-some home insurance policies will cover your tractors if you have one or two for "home maintenance", but not if you have a "collection". Something to think about. There are specialty insurance policies out there to cover your collections or tractors at shows.

Note to self... drive big circles around the sleeping Skonk.

The steering was a big change for the better as well. The RJ's steer very quickly.

The sheet metal and front axle are the primary differences, the 551 Suburban was the first to go away from the three piece transmission. Lots of subtle differences but they were both the same basic size and configuration. RJ on the left and Suburban on the right. (no, they are not mine) They belong to @Alfonso

Put a Kohler on it. That engine is rebuild able though. Marvin

I read a recent post on the forum which sparked a concept we sometimes forget but can never take for granted. The machinery (including Wheel Horses) we use and play with is stronger and more powerful than we are. This means it can hurt us and others, and it will if not used with full concentration, total awareness, and undivided attention. Whether it is a tractor, table saw, planer, welder, chop saw, or lawn mower, these machines deserve respect and undivided attention when they are being used. I lost part of a thumb to a table saw. My father lost part of a finger to a joiner. I grabbed a belt on my Wheel Horse and nearly lost a finger. Many of us have injured ourselves in some way using the tools we love best. And in most cases, it is at a moment when we lost concentration, forgot a basic rule, or tried to take a shortcut. These days, manufactures try to "dumb down" tools to protect them against weekend warriors who have no more respect for them than video games. Let's face it, if you are not going to respect your machines and use them with the caution and reverence that they deserve, then you should not be operating them. They are fun to use because of what they can accomplish in the hands of a skilled "professional", but they are not toys and should never be underestimated in their ability to harm if used without complete awareness. No safety feature will overcome this fact. Now, let's go mow in reverse.

Jim : Your scan of the idler piece is a good reference. Both of those holes that you point out for the idler pulley are threaded, Not sure why there are two holes but putting that pulley in one or the other is going to change the tension on the idler arm -with whatever belt is on it! I bought a 312 tractor with a recycler deck two years ago and the deck needed several parts replaced. One of the parts that was worn badly was the idler arm. As you can see the idler arm holes for the slides are egg shaped and the idler arm has cuts in it where the idler pulley skipped and cut into the arm surface. The telltale sign of the problem however is the ring around the hole where the idler pulley was placed and it is apparently the wrong hole for installing the idler pulley based on the scanned drawing Ed posted above. I replaced the idler arm with a new one from Toro which was about $40 but it was needed to make this mower function correctly. Also I had to change the center lift piece in the mower rack as it was damaged with an egg-shaped /oblong hole worn it it also!

Well, I got side tracked. Finally got around to the fan gear this weekend. Cleaned it all out. Can't say things improved much after lining it with fresh grease. Interestingly though, after mowing several times with the thrust washers in place, the steering seems to have lightened up noticeably. Not sure whether the washers and axles needed to wear-in a bit, but it does seem to have made a positive difference. At this point I'm happy. Thanks everyone for your suggestions and patience.

Whew! What ever...back to its old self now. It's working again.

This might not help correct Formariz's belt eating problem but I have seen belts chewed up for the reasons I am going to explain. One of the things I have noticed on these 36 inch mower decks that causes trouble is the oval hole in the idler arm sometimes gets distorted and slides sideways in addition to back and forth. I change the carriage bolts about every three or four years when redoing a deck and check the holes on the idler arm. These decks pictured in this thread have two different idler arms -one with the black plastic slider and one with the U shaped nylon type idler block that goes around the top of the idler arm and rests on a 1/16 inch slider with square holes for the carriage bolts to come thru from the bottom. These U shaped nylon (and it may be some other material) slide blocks can wear side to side too. The U shaped blocks are no longer made and although I have several that still are in great shape after 40 plus years of use they will wear and we will need replacements. The black round type are still made and Glen Pettit also sells some of these variety. The idler arms must slide easily and without bouncing around.

Jim, you must be missing the location of the attachment point of the ends of the spring. In this photo, the bottom end of the spring is attached to the sliding bar and the top end is fixed to the deck. Therefore the spring is pulling the sliding bar and pulley up and tightening the belt.

Picked this one up a couple months ago. Love the C-195. Dad has had one since 1985. Always used the 60" deck on it. That deck pictured above is the same as his. Sweet tractors.

What is the difference? something that has made me wonder since i first saw one.

Deck is finished, elevator and top installed on pole. Clothesline is not installed yet, I need to get a pulley. Pole could be a bit shorter, maybe I will install a flag on the top.

Thanks for the information. I am going to see if they will help with the steering on my c-120

Hey guys I wanted to give an update... i was was able to get the Mower Fired up and we were able to Cut Grass with it for the First time in over 3 years or so.. it still needs much more work, and with the help of my Neighbor Bill we are going to work throught issues. it is burning and using oil so we wil need to rebuild the Engine at some point. the Carb needs adjusted after the Rebuild, we just wanted to run some fuel through it before we did it. it is going to need new belts. it needs new Blades and the blades I have need to Be Sharpened by a Pro. a few Odds and ends . thanks jeff

ALC, Last Spring I purchased a poorly maintained (read abused) 414-8. For 30+years I have owned and worked a Commando 800, plowing a 450'drive and mowing about 1/2 acre lawn. The Commando was and is a wonderful machine. It only failed me once and that was when the coil battery wire broke due to vibration. With a simple repair I was on my way in 5 minutes. So I was very much looking forward to getting the 414-8 fixed up. After rebuilding it to a working tractor I was disappointed to find that the steering was unacceptably heavy. I found Red Square on my internet search, joined, and posted the question of heavy steering to the members. They were very helpful in troubleshooting and proposing changes. I did the following work on the 414-8: Replaced the two bushings on the horizontal steering shaft and greased well. Shimmed the column shaft where it fits into the fan gear and greased well. (to remove horizontal play) Modified the axle to accept 3/4" thrust bearings (McMaster- Carr) between the spindle and axle Increased front tire pressure to 21psi Removed the 13" steering wheel and installed a 15" steering wheel Installed 520hc tie rods Adjusted toe in to 1/4" After all of the above work I found the steering to be only slightly improved and not acceptable to a day of working. I attribute the heavy steering to: The heavy weight of the Magnum 14 engine The wide width of the 414-8 CarlisleTurf tires The knobs on the Carlisle tires opposing the turning of the wheel The steering ratio appears to be the same as my Commando 800 The leverage arm of the bell-crank on the spindle and of the bell-crank on the horizontal steering shaft The small 13" wheel I decided to bite the bullet and purchased a well used 520hc axle, spindles and reduction gear steering. Did the following work to the 520hc front end: Rebushed the horizontal steering shaft Shimmed the steering column where it enters the fan gear mount New thrust bearings and washers on the spindles Installed trailer hubs and wheels on the spindles Adjusted toe in to 1/8" Tire pressure 21psi Removed approximately 1/2" from the bell-crank on the rockshaft (at the last hole) as it was interfering with the fan gear mount Now the tractor steers like a dream and I am very happy with the result. Evidently Toro had a problem with the 414/416/520 tractors with heavy steering so they went with a reduction gear steering system on the 520hc to cure the problem. I recommend to you Al that switching to the 520hc front end with the reduction gear steering system will solve your heavy steering problem. It has worked for many others on this site and it worked for me. Good luck with your troubleshooting. Eric

How about a barricade!

I still think the best way to fix your problem is to sell that beauty to me! Not sure if your photo is inhanced in any way but those are two really nice tractors!

Pick up a can of Seafoam Carburetor Cleaner spray, with the air cleaner removed and the engine running at half throttle; spray a few shots of the Seafoam in the air intake and let it recover between shots, do this several times. I have had good results with this.

Now just a minute...My lil' ole black hood C105 may be loud and smoke a bit, but she does just fine mowing and plowing...and annoying the neighbors in the process...