More C-125 / K301 questions with photos...

[Jeff-C175 7,195]

Wiring harness for the rear lights.  Still need to put the connectors on the two wires.

 

You can really see the rust craters on the bottom!  Thankfully the top is not nearly as bad as this!

 

 

The 'money shot':

 

 

@Snoopy11 Don, here they are lit up. Each tail light draws about 50 milliamps.  The backup lamp draws about 400 milliamps.

 

 

With the lights in the shop off, looks like some evil "Transformer" !

 

 

Oh yeah, and the toggle switch for the BU lamp IS in fact too tall.  I've decided to cut the toggle handle down rather than relocate it, or drill a hole for clearance in the seat bracket.  I'll still be able to work it, but with a little more effort is all.  Not a problem, arthritis ain't that bad yet!

 

 

 

Edited November 30, 2021 by Jeff-C175

[Gregor 4,838]

Here is the linkage from my 141 compared to your 175. Mine has a lot more bend in it. My 175 is pretty buried, or I would take a pic of it.

[Jeff-C175 7,195]

3 minutes ago, Gregor said:

compared to your 175

 

Thanks Greg.  That pic is actually my 'new to me' 125 that I'm getting ready for plow duty.

 

I haven't taken the cover off the 175 to see what the difference is, but yeah, that's pretty extreme on your machine!

 

Is the 'stop bolt' missing perhaps?  That's another though... take the bolt out completely as long as it doesn't cause other issues.

 

[Jeff-C175 7,195]

7 minutes ago, Gregor said:

Here

 

Is your pulley 'self destructing' ?  Is it plastic?

 

 

Edited November 30, 2021 by Jeff-C175

[Gregor 4,838]

Never thought to look at pics from my 125. I don't think I have a stop bolt. I'll have to investigate further.

[Gregor 4,838]

4 minutes ago, Jeff-C175 said:

 

Is your pulley 'self destructing' ?  Is it plastic?

 

 

I think that is actually just caked dirt falling out. These pics were taken during tear down.

[Gregor 4,838]

Curiosity got to me. It always does. I dug the 125 out and brought it up to the garage. Mine does not have a stop bolt, but there is a hole. I stuck a 1/4" rod in it for a second, the lever would not begin to stay up when pulled. When the lever is pulled, there is no tension on the belt, the tractor is on suppose to be moving. I can't see a problem with omitting the bolt, even though the parts book shows it there.

[Handy Don 10,609]

4 hours ago, Jeff-C175 said:

 

Oh yeah, and the toggle switch for the BU lamp IS in fact too tall.  I've decided to cut the toggle handle down rather than relocate it, or drill a hole for clearance in the seat bracket.  I'll still be able to work it, but with a little more effort is all.  Not a problem, arthritis ain't that bad yet!

I decided that fender mount was an invitation to damage and didn't give high & wide illumination over a rear-mounted implement. Since the soft rubber seat cover comes off easily and there was a gap in the foam at this position, I mounted the light high up on the seat shell. Inside I ground off the screws flush with the nuts. Switch is low profile--less than ¼" inside the seat with side-connected terminals. With the deep foam, the nuts and wires are undetectable to a seated operator. 

 

I wired a pair of 2-conductor connectors to the headlight circuit under the fender--one for the taillights and one for this back light--so that it goes together easily.

Like you, Jeff, I ran direct grounds (I added a wired ground from the front to the rear and used that for the lights, the transaxle temperature sensor, and the fuel sensor.)

 

[Jeff-C175 7,195]

2 hours ago, Gregor said:

When the lever is pulled, there is no tension on the belt, the tractor is on suppose to be moving. I

 

Greg, I don't understand what you wrote.

 

Did you mean to say "the tractor is NOT SUPPOSED to be moving"?

 

Now I have to drop the cover on my 175 because it travels just fine with the clutch pulled up.  I've accidentally mowed the entire yard with the clutch pulled up, and the belt wasn't burnt!

 

Seems to me that when the clutch goes "over center" the idler starts back down putting tension back on the belt again.

[Jeff-C175 7,195]

10 minutes ago, Handy Don said:

fender mount

 

The only reason that it's installed at all is because it was there from the PO and I didn't want to weld the holes shut!

 

I don't use any rear mounted tools either.

 

So it's only there because it was there! 

 

 

[Handy Don 10,609]

Its my understanding that these releases were essential to the early Sunstrands with opposed piston pump/motors. Those machines simply would not roll with the engine off without either the "rolling relief valve" being opened (and these were not at all accessible) or loosening the belt to allow the pump pulley to turn independent of the engine. They continued on the Eatons, but ultimately, as on the 520 I'm running, they weren't needed and were eliminated. 

[8ntruck 6,376]

Last time I ran my C195, I went to pull the clutch lever up after I shut it down and discovered that the lever was already up!  Got to look into that, as the belt should not drive the pump with the clutch lever up.

[Jeff-C175 7,195]

7 minutes ago, 8ntruck said:

Last time I ran my C195, I went to pull the clutch lever up after I shut it down and discovered that the lever was already up!  Got to look into that, as the belt should not drive the pump with the clutch lever up.

 

Please let us know what you find!

 

I have a suspicion that removing the stop bolt lets the tension back onto the belt.

 

Tomorrow I'm pulling the cover on my 175.

[Gregor 4,838]

3 hours ago, Jeff-C175 said:

Did you mean to say "the tractor is NOT SUPPOSED to be moving"?

yes,  Typo

[Gregor 4,838]

3 hours ago, Jeff-C175 said:

Now I have to drop the cover on my 175

I am going to bring my 175 up also. I had everything put away for the winter. Gives me an excuse to get them out again. Just one more time.

 

3 hours ago, Jeff-C175 said:

I have a suspicion that removing the stop bolt lets the tension back onto the belt.

The belt on my 125 is quite lose with the lever up, and no stop bolt.

[Jeff-C175 7,195]

9 hours ago, Gregor said:

pics from my 125

 

Just noticed something.  The lever 'stop' becomes the slot in the chassis with the bolt missing.  No big deal I'm sure,  just noticed it looking at the pics and pondering.

 

 

Whereas on mine with the bolt, the lever stops a good half inch or a little more from the end of the slot.  (pic is a little dark so I added the yaller arrows)

 

 

I hope to get to the 175 tomorrow (oops!  that's TODAY now! ) to see what's going on with that.

 

[kpinnc 10,736]

11 hours ago, Handy Don said:

Its my understanding that these releases were essential to the early Sunstrands with opposed piston pump/motors. Those machines simply would not roll with the engine off without either the "rolling relief valve" being opened (and these were not at all accessible) or loosening the belt to allow the pump pulley to turn independent of the engine. They continued on the Eatons, but ultimately, as on the 520 I'm running, they weren't needed and were eliminated. 

 

Makes sense, but as with many WH choices over the years, I wonder why they kept all those extra parts in there all the way into the late 80s on some of the Eatons? My 518-H had this on it, and the later 520-H did not. 

 

My Bronco is the only hydro that I have left (out of 4) with the release intact, and if it starts rattling, it's coming out too.

 

Also, I think this device only worked properly with the original OEM belt. Many years later, I'm sure that belt spec changed multiple times so far as what was authorized. The newer OEM belts don't slip like the older ones did with the fabric exterior.

Edited December 1, 2021 by kpinnc

[Handy Don 10,609]

30 minutes ago, kpinnc said:

My 518-H had this on it, and the later 520-H did not

Same experience. 518-H (RIP) and current 520.

I agree, it would seem unnecessary except that perhaps the 700 and some of the earlier builds of the 1100 were more resistant to rolling. Having a hydro that wouldn't roll would have gained them a bad reputation and pushback from customers.

 

[kpinnc 10,736]

1 minute ago, Handy Don said:

Same experience. 518-H (RIP) and current 520.

I agree, it would seem unnecessary except that perhaps the 700 and some of the earlier builds of the 1100 were more resistant to rolling. Having a hydro that wouldn't roll would have gained them a bad reputation and pushback from customers.

 

Not sure either. I've yet to find a 700 Eaton that would roll, even if the belt was removed. I replaced one once that had a spring loaded relief valve on it, but you had to hold it with a finger the whole time to move it. Not an easy thing with a 300 series tractor.

 

Just one more of many reasons that made the 1100 series Eatons so much better.

[pfrederi 17,147]

Pushing a sunstrand requires some counter intuitive acts.  When you pull up the brake to "disengage" the hydro (really you are slacking the drive belt ) then you cannot move the tractor because you have also set the parking brake. To roll it you have to have the brake off which means the drive belt is tight and then you have to open the tow valve ..then you can push it.  With the belt tight engine not running the hydro pump can't turn so when you try to push it  the hydro motor tries to push fluid through the pump and can't .  Thus if you can push a sunstrand with tow valve closed you have a weak tired system.

[Gregor 4,838]

I brought my 175 up to the garage. It has a Sundstrand. Notice there isn't much angle in the links with the lever up, but it does stay up.

The stop bolt is still in this tractor. Lever up or down doesn't matter. Unless you open the tow valve, it's almost impossible to push, and it's almost impossible to get a wrench on that tow valve.

[Jeff-C175 7,195]

8 hours ago, pfrederi said:

To roll it you have to have the brake off which means the drive belt is tight

 

Not on mine.  The parking brake only returns the hydro to neutral.  The clutch mechanism is completely independent of the brake.  I do understand that some models they are interlocked though, we discussed this earlier as I recall.  These are both 1980 C series with Sundstrand transmission.

 

[Jeff-C175 7,195]

2 hours ago, Gregor said:

Notice there isn't much angle in the links with the lever up, but it does stay up

 

Thanks Greg.  I see the stop bolt is there.

 

I didn't get to mine today, I used it instead mulching down leaves.  Now I'm back working on the 125 again.

 

[Jeff-C175 7,195]

I haven't checked @Vinylguy Terry's website yet, but if anyone knows where replacement labels for the K301 can be had, please advise:

I'd like to repaint the tins and while the one on the left is nice and I could mask around it, the two on the right are rather ratty.

 

 

Not sure I care for the red grill on the flywheel.  This was an experiment... to see if I liked it.  I may go back to black.

 

 

And finally, if your local Dollar Store carries this stuff, and you want to clean up a greezy old machine, buy this stuff!

Spray it on the grime, work it around with a disposable chip brush, let it sit about ten minutes, and wipe the grime right off.  It's a little thickerer than CRC or WD-40 and at a buck a can it's a bargain!

 

Oh, and it also shines up old paint nicely!  I don't know how long it will last before it evaporates and it looks old again, but it sure looks purty for a while!  I had just wiped down the tins on the engine in the photo above.  LOTS of dirt on the paper towel.  If nothing else, it sure does clean stuff good! @peter lena

 

 

[Gregor 4,838]

Just ordered  2 sets of decals from Terry. One set for the 341, and a decal for the MV16. I seem to have very little luck with his web site order form though. I usually email. When corresponding with him, it can get confusing. At least for me. One day you get an email from Redoyourhorse. The next time it comes from mcg503@comcast (midwest custom graphics), but then I am easily confused.