Wheel Horse C-160 problems

[Berny 9]

I have a wheel horse C-160 that I have been trying to fix up. It has the Tecumseh HH-160 engine. Today I found out it has low compression, which was a major bummer. I need to open up the engine and do the piston rings, head gaskets etc. I found the piston rings, but I haven't been able to locate a gasket kit for this engine anywhere online. It's tough because Tecumseh has been out of business for 20+ years. Also, it seems most C-160s had the kohler engine. I can't even find a good service manual for it!

 

Does anyone know where I can buy the gasket kit for this engine?

 

If I can't find it, should I try to swap out the engine? With what? 

 

Any idea where I can find a good service manual?

 

Thanks a ton!

 

 

 

[ebinmaine 63,140]

 

 

The C160 with the Tecumseh is rare. Only made in 1974 and rumored as little as 200 to 300 made. 

 

For a parts source try Lincoln at A to Z Tractor in Pennsylvania. 

 

We may have a manual here in the information section.  

 

If you were to swap that engine for another one the easiest would be the Kohler 16. 

 

What are your compression figures hot and cold?

 

 

[squonk 38,930]

You could drop a K321 14 in it and have a C-140. They are plentiful and cheaper. Use the Tecky for a door stop.

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 10,498]

May be listed as HH-160 as it was later changed to OH-160

Parts lists

https://www.partstree.com/models/oh160-170019-tecumseh-engine

 

Garry

[953 nut 51,699]

6 hours ago, Berny said:

Today I found out it has low compression, which was a major bummer. I need to open up the engine and do the piston rings,

Prior to dropping a bunch of money on parts you need to have the engine measured to determine the condition of the cylinder. A set of rings won't cure low compression if the cylinder is egg shaped or badly worn. 

know if 

[ohiofarmer 3,157]

 As far as compression, can we really measure it when these engines have compression release? Besides that, just popping the top off the piston may reveal other problems like a leaking head gasket or a head that needs flattened. i often find valves that need adjusted or cleaned as well. 

 Most that i buy, have at least some wear and another quick test is just to push the head of the piston sideways with the front and side of the bore. An oblong bore of any amount will show difference as the piston moves down the bore. I also use a feeler gauge on the the top edge of the piston which is sort of like the piston ring gap idea but not as accurate.

[peter lena 8,067]

BERNIE, if that tecy  is really sick , why not just swap just swap it put with a  K321 ?  really a bolt in set up , you could also add electronic ignition and a few other improvements to bring it up to date  (    if you want to ) . pete 

[Berny 9]

11 hours ago, ebinmaine said:

 

 

The C160 with the Tecumseh is rare. Only made in 1974 and rumored as little as 200 to 300 made. 

 

For a parts source try Lincoln at A to Z Tractor in Pennsylvania. 

 

We may have a manual here in the information section.  

 

If you were to swap that engine for another one the easiest would be the Kohler 16

 

 

Thank you! I figured they were rare as I can't find any info about them. But I feel better about it now, thanks. I will try that store. No luck on the manual here in the site. I found some useful info, but not the top to bottom engine/tractor guide I was looking for.

 

I'll check out the kohler, any idea on where to find and how much it would cost?

 

Thanks!

[ebinmaine 63,140]

Used Kohler like anything else is going to be just a potluck. You can find them anywhere from $100 $150 all the way up to $400.

 

if it's a tractor you honestly intend to keep for a long time you may want to seriously consider a reman Kohler 16.

most of what you do is going to be a bolt in. If there's anything that's that different parts are readily available from several of us or A to Z as mentioned above.

One of our own, @richmondred01 sells engines that he has rebuilt.

 

I'll let him throw a quote at you for the engine plus shipping.....

 

Those Tecumseh engines were popular in Sears tractors so it's possible there's manuals there. 

I've seen the manual that supplied for all of those of the various sizes and some of it like you say is not super specific.

 

At least now you have several different options and directions to go. Good luck and keep asking questions!

 

[Berny 9]

7 hours ago, gwest_ca said:

May be listed as HH-160 as it was later changed to OH-160

 

 

Garry,

 

Thank you so much! Are you certain the OH160 is the same engine? If that is the case it solves a ton of my problems. On another forum I read another post about the OH being a much newer and different motor. However, looking at those diagrams, they sure do look like my engine. I do have that manual you posted, but it didn't include HH160 in the models it covered. 

 

You may have solved the problem.

Thank you!

[Berny 9]

7 hours ago, 953 nut said:

Prior to dropping a bunch of money on parts you need to have the engine measured to determine the condition of the cylinder. A set of rings won't cure low compression if the cylinder is egg shaped or badly worn. 

Thank you! 

I was hoping to make sure the gaskets and such were even available before I took the engine apart. If I can find them then I'll crack it open and see what the deal is. You make a good point though, no need to waste money on an engine that is beyond saving. I really like that procedure on finding out about honing the cylinder, thanks!

[ebinmaine 63,140]

6 minutes ago, Berny said:

 

Garry,

 

Thank you so much! Are you certain the OH160 is the same engine? If that is the case it solves a ton of my problems. On another forum I read another post about the OH being a much newer and different motor. However, looking at those diagrams, they sure do look like my engine. I do have that manual you posted, but it didn't include HH160 in the models it covered. 

 

You may have solved the problem.

Thank you!

Berny the way I understand it is that the early 70s 16 was an ohv of a very early type. 

 

@Stepney can you shed any light here?

 

Not sure who else knows Sears tractors...

@jabelman @ZXT ?

 

 

[Berny 9]

35 minutes ago, ebinmaine said:

Berny the way I understand it is that the early 70s 16 was an ohv of a very early type. 

Thank you! A couple days ago I found a table of Tecumseh models and what the letters mean. Of course I can't find it now, but basically the HH is horizontal heavy duty, and the OH refers overhead valve. So mine is an HH, but it certainly had overhead valves, so the question is if it is the same basic engine as the OH160? If I buy a gasket kit for the OH160, will it fit my engine? Is the OH just an updated model number for the same engine? If you or the users you mentioned could shed some light on this, I sure would be grateful!

 

Also, I will look into getting a rebuild kohler that fits, that is a good idea! 

 

Thanks!

[WHNJ701 4,164]

I will check what manuals I have, my 1968 Sears I pulled out the tech engine and it's getting a predator swap.  It's one of those tractors I got for free and really don't want it or to sink any money or much time into.  The predator swap looks interesting without modifications.

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 10,498]

I don't know if there ever was a 16hp flat head engine. I know the first overhead valve models were labelled a HH160 and they changed the name to OH160 to better identify them.

 

Garry

[Stepney 2,314]

I've been around a lot of Sears, and Teccy in general.. AFAIK, there was, in the HH lineup, a 12, 10, 9, 8, and so on down the line. 
An OHV OH140 shares internals to a point with the 10hp flathead, and the 16hp OHV shares that of the HH120 12hp. As I remember it in my giant Tec book from the 70s. I think they planted an OHV 12hp in there for a short period..

But chances are, it's an OH160. I've never heard of an HH160 in any of my books, and they date that period. 

Tec could get weird with stuff though.. 

My best advice is study your engine and lots of pictures, and take measurements before so much as thinking about buying a single bit. I've seen many a botched-built original Tec with oddball oversize parts or undersize here or there.

 

[Berny 9]

22 hours ago, gwest_ca said:

I don't know if there ever was a 16hp flat head engine. I know the first overhead valve models were labelled a HH160 and they changed the name to OH160 to better identify them.

 

Garry

That is wonderful news. So I should be able to buy a gasket kit for an OH-160, and expect it to fit my engine? You might have just saved my tractor, I really appreciate it!

[Berny 9]

22 hours ago, Stepney said:

I've been around a lot of Sears, and Teccy in general.. AFAIK, there was, in the HH lineup, a 12, 10, 9, 8, and so on down the line. 
An OHV OH140 shares internals to a point with the 10hp flathead, and the 16hp OHV shares that of the HH120 12hp. As I remember it in my giant Tec book from the 70s. I think they planted an OHV 12hp in there for a short period..

But chances are, it's an OH160. I've never heard of an HH160 in any of my books, and they date that period. 

Tec could get weird with stuff though.. 

My best advice is study your engine and lots of pictures, and take measurements before so much as thinking about buying a single bit. I've seen many a botched-built original Tec with oddball oversize parts or undersize here or there.

 

Well, it is certainly labeled "HH160" I certainly understand the doubt. Google found me maybe 3 mentions of an engine called HH160 across the entire internet. They were all 10 year old posts on random forums. Maybe they just made a few before updating the label. So it sounds like I can be relatively safe buying a gasket kit for an OH160 and expect it to fit my engine. That is great advice on measuring everything before I buy, but I'm not sure how to do that on the internet. I think I will be hard know the exact sizes on all the different gaskets offered in a set online. I can probably manage it with stuff like pistons and rings because they are just circles. I really appreciate the help and advice. If you have more I would love to hear it. 

 

Thanks!!

[ebinmaine 63,140]

1 minute ago, Berny said:

certainly labeled "HH160

Lemme look at my own and I'll see what it's labeled. 

The labeling may have been simply a "consistency" of Tecumseh. 

 

 

[Berny 9]

5 minutes ago, ebinmaine said:

Lemme look at my own and I'll see what it's labeled. 

The labeling may have been simply a "consistency" of Tecumseh. 

 

 

That would be awesome, thanks!

[ebinmaine 63,140]

54 minutes ago, Berny said:

That would be awesome, thanks!

Just got home. Wish I could help you out but there's no label on mine. Long long gone.

[Stepney 2,314]

36 minutes ago, ebinmaine said:

Just got home. Wish I could help you out but there's no label on mine. Long long gone.

You talking about the Raider? Or your own C160? I think yours  may have been stamped in the actual shroud sheet metal, not the tag, they did that sometimes for .. some reason.

Its Tecumseh.. expect nothing to be the same. 

[ebinmaine 63,140]

6 minutes ago, Stepney said:

You talking about the Raider? Or your own C160? I think yours  may have been stamped in the actual shroud sheet metal, not the tag, they did that sometimes for .. some reason.

Its Tecumseh.. expect nothing to be the same. 

My c-160 with the Tecumseh.

There's a lighter spot in the paint where there may have been either a tag or a riveted on label at some point. You may remember it's quite rusty so it's really hard to see what's going on.

Could very well be stamped into the sheet metal but I don't see where anymore.....

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 10,498]

If there was a true flat head HH-160 and an OH-160 they would not have the same 170019 spec number.

 

Garry

[Berny 9]

23 hours ago, gwest_ca said:

If there was a true flat head HH-160 and an OH-160 they would not have the same 170019 spec number.

 

Garry

Right. Mine is definitely overhead valve. Then I suppose I can take that spec number match as confirmation that I can buy parts for the OH160 and reasonably expect them to fit my engine?