My next custom Wheel Horse

[82Caddy 851]

2 hours ago, oilwell1415 said:

Another brake option might be some go kart brakes.  With all of the room inside those wheels you could probably make something work on the axles.  You could probably get a pair of go kart band brakes for under $50.

 

I've been thinking about this brake issue for a minute now.  Could do a turning style brake from a D series (disc brake bolted in the backside of the wheel hub) on the hubs you already have.  Drill and tap some holes to fit bicycle/go-cart/moped small disc brake and caliper you can find.  It could be actuated with an e-brake style lever between the driver and passenger or foot operated too if you have space for that up front.  It's becoming more common for bicycles to have hydraulic operated disc brakes.

[19richie66 16,942]

Any streetbike front discs/calipers would fit the bill if you could get the rotors hooked to the wheels.

[Pullstart 59,730]

55 minutes ago, 82Caddy said:

 

I've been thinking about this brake issue for a minute now.  Could do a turning style brake from a D series (disc brake bolted in the backside of the wheel hub) on the hubs you already have.  Drill and tap some holes to fit bicycle/go-cart/moped small disc brake and caliper you can find.  It could be actuated with an e-brake style lever between the driver and passenger or foot operated too if you have space for that up front.  It's becoming more common for bicycles to have hydraulic operated disc brakes.

 

24 minutes ago, 19richie66 said:

Any streetbike front discs/calipers would fit the bill if you could get the rotors hooked to the wheels.

 

Thanks guys!  Richie I might have some Harley Davidson or Honda CBR brake parts that might just work.  Reid, a ratchet e-brake lever seems simple enough, I might be able to incorporate an interlock lever that holds the motion control in neutral while the brake is set.  I have a Subaru parts car that might have a hand brake lever too.  Man this build is gonna be sweet!  That’s if I stop daydreaming and get to work!

[oilwell1415 563]

If you wanted to go hydraulic "real" brakes, you need to go to the junk yard and get a rear end out of a mid 90's Ford car with 5 lug wheels and rear disc brakes.  The rotors will slip right on your existing hubs and they have mechanical parking brakes built into the calipers.  If you get the whole rear end it will include the caliper brackets that you will just have to adapt to your axle.  All of the parts will be readily available from your nearest parts store and cheap.  You could probably buy rotors, calipers and pads for under $150 new and just fab up the brackets if you wanted to.

[Pullstart 59,730]

I might even have some axles laying around, but only drum brakes that I’m aware of.  I have a lot of parts and just happened to have scrapped out a few vehicles, so I’ll shop around in the field and the back barn before I junk anything more.

 

Though I mentioned an interlock to prevent the motion control from working if the brake was set, @daveoman1966 @pfrederi @953 nut or other hydro-experienced fellas... any input on this question would be appreciated: What would happen to a strong hydro if the wheels were 100% locked and the motion control was activated?  Would the hydro slip any, or would it dead head the pump and stall the engine?

[19richie66 16,942]

Ford explorer would have that. I used an 8.8 with discs in my old cherokee.

[19richie66 16,942]

1 minute ago, pullstart said:

I might even have some axles laying around, but only drum brakes that I’m aware of.  I have a lot of parts and just happened to have scrapped out a few vehicles, so I’ll shop around in the field and the back barn before I junk anything more.

 

Though I mentioned an interlock to prevent the motion control from working if the brake was set, @daveoman1966 @pfrederi @953 nut or other hydro-experienced fellas... any input on this question would be appreciated: What would happen to a strong hydro if the wheels were 100% locked and the motion control was activated?  Would the hydro slip any, or would it dead head the pump and stall the engine?

Could put a pressre relief bypass in it

[Pullstart 59,730]

35 minutes ago, 19richie66 said:

Ford explorer would have that. I used an 8.8 with discs in my old cherokee.

 

I just scrapped a Ranger, but I’m unsure if the hubs were the same...  

[Pullstart 59,730]

36 minutes ago, 19richie66 said:

Could put a pressre relief bypass in it

 

In the trans?  I’d have to fully understand that hydraulic circuitry, huh?

[oilwell1415 563]

27 minutes ago, pullstart said:

 

I just scrapped a Ranger, but I’m unsure if the hubs were the same...  

Same wheel bolt pattern, but their parking brake (assuming you could find one with rear disc brakes) is a small drum inside the rotor.  Not really that good for what I think you are looking for.  The mid 90's cars use a caliper that has a mechanical parking brake built into it that squeezes the rotor just like the regular brake.  This would make setting it up a lot easier to have normal hydraulic brakes plus a mechanical parking brake.  If you just want regular hydraulic brakes you could use about anything you wanted.

[oilwell1415 563]

Another option would be to plumb a small hydraulic cylinder in that pops the brake off when the hydraulic pressure comes up.

[8ntruck 6,376]

1 hour ago, pullstart said:

 

In the trans?  I’d have to fully understand that hydraulic circuitry, huh?

I would expect that there is already a high pressure relief valve somewhere in the hydraulic system.  If so, you'd end up heating the oil as it was pumped through the relief valve.  It will get hot quickly in this situation.

 

If the pump in the system is a pressure compensated swash plate type pump, he swash plate will shift into 'neutral' so the pump won't pump any oil until the load side of the system calls for more oil.

 

Disclaimer - my hydraulic experience is all with industrial machinery.  I do not have any experience with Sunstrand or Eaton GT systems, though I think the same operating principles apply.

[Pullstart 59,730]

4 minutes ago, oilwell1415 said:

Another option would be to plumb a small hydraulic cylinder in that pops the brake off when the hydraulic pressure comes up.

 

I’d rather go the other way, so a bump in the motion control couldn’t force movement.

[oilwell1415 563]

I guess it depends on what you want.  I could see case for doing it either way.  One is to stop the tractor from moving no matter what; the other is to protect the tractor if the operator wants it to move and forgets to take the brake off.  My truck automatically kicks the parking brake off when I put it in gear, so it wouldn't really be any different that that.  All I really know about these is what I've read here, but as I understand it you have to first activate the hydraulic system and then move a control to start motion.  If that's the case you could just disengage the hydraulics so two movements would be required to move the tractor.

[Pullstart 59,730]

7 minutes ago, oilwell1415 said:

I guess it depends on what you want.  I could see case for doing it either way.  One is to stop the tractor from moving no matter what; the other is to protect the tractor if the operator wants it to move and forgets to take the brake off.  My truck automatically kicks the parking brake off when I put it in gear, so it wouldn't really be any different that that.  All I really know about these is what I've read here, but as I understand it you have to first activate the hydraulic system and then move a control to start motion.  If that's the case you could just disengage the hydraulics so two movements would be required to move the tractor.

 

 

I can relate, my new truck’s parking brake is push button / self canceling when I apply pressure to the brake pedal to shift.

 

To activate the hydraulics on the hydro models, you pretty much start the engine.  There is a “parking brake” that relieves tension on the belt and activates the internal parking pawl, but I’m not sure if it completely stops the pulley from moving. I don’t have any of these components with the spare parts I have on hand... that I do know.

[19richie66 16,942]

1 hour ago, pullstart said:

 

In the trans?  I’d have to fully understand that hydraulic circuitry, huh?

Yes disregard this comment. Don’t know what I was thinking. 

[oilwell1415 563]

43 minutes ago, pullstart said:

I can relate, my new truck’s parking brake is push button / self canceling when I apply pressure to the brake pedal to shift.

My new truck does lots of things that puzzle me.  The last two days we've had more snow than we've had in several years, so I drove the new truck since it's 4wd and our road crews are not known for their skill.  Leaving home the truck will barely move with the open rear axle.  I hit the locker and it won't turn on because I'm going over 20 mph, but it comes on at the next stop sign.  Much better as long as you don't try to turn.  But then it turns off when I hit 20 mph.  Not a big deal, it will come back on when I stop and need it.  Nope.  You have to cycle the switch again.  So I try the snow and ice mode in the transmission hoping it will do better.  Nope.  Full of nanny switches.  I understand why they set it up like this.  It's to keep people from using their locker on dry pavement and tearing things up or wrecking.  But when I just need a little more traction that one tire can provide I shouldn't have to hit the 4wd to get it.  I also hate that it turns itself off every time you come to a stop, but at least there's a switch on the dash to turn that off.  I have not yet found the "shut up and give me the locker anyway" switch.  I had doubts about ordering it with the electric locker, but I did it.  In retrospect I should have skipped that and put a Trutrac in like I have in my other truck.

[Pullstart 59,730]

Ok, here’s where I’m at as far as parts on hand go.  

 

I have an entire ‘96 Subaru Outback Impreza for brakes if needed.  I plan to pull the engine, transmission and wiring harness, then scrap the rest.  The wheels measure roughly 5 on 4”, so my guess is 5 on 100mm.  I could likely chuck them up on the rotary table jig, indicate my centers and drill new holes... then figure out if I want to do a hydraulic brake setup or gut the calipers and build a mechanical / spring loaded brake system.

 

I have an 80’s 3/4 ton Chevy straight axle.  Too heavy duty in my mind.

 

I have a pair of Wheel Horse brake setups off 3 speeds.  I could likely build a simple setup by building drums on the inside of my wheel adapters and adding mounting brackets to a plow/tiller bracket mounted to the axle.  I think this is the simplest option... plus it’s Wheel Horse parts.

[Pullstart 59,730]

Here is a picture of my adapter mounted up before I turned it down.  They are just a bit larger than the hub, maybe by 1/2” overall diameter.  The drums could be welded directly to the adapters and be trued in the lathe, plus slide right over the hubs.

 

 

[ebinmaine 63,145]

13 minutes ago, pullstart said:

have a pair of Wheel Horse brake setups off 3 speeds.  I could likely build a simple setup by building drums on the inside of my wheel adapters and adding mounting brackets to a plow/tiller bracket mounted to the axle.  I think this is the simplest option... plus it’s Wheel Horse parts

I like this option for simplicity and keeping it 'horse..

 

[953 nut 51,719]

6 hours ago, pullstart said:

What would happen to a strong hydro if the wheels were 100% locked and the motion control was activated?  Would the hydro slip any, or would it dead head the pump and stall the engine?

When my GT-14 didn't have added weight and I pushed the front end loader into a large immovable pile of dirt the rear wheels would both spin (limited slip differential).Now that I have a few hundred pounds of weights, loaded tires and tire chains on it the engine will labor and die under the same circumstances.

[953 nut 51,719]

Another break option could be a pair of brake drums turned inward and a singe break shoe in each operated mechanically. That is how it was done on the Pennsylvania Panzer tractors.

[ebinmaine 63,145]

8 minutes ago, 953 nut said:

Another break option could be a pair of brake drums turned inward and a singe break shoe in each operated mechanically. That is how it was done on the Pennsylvania Panzer tractors.

That's kinda what I was envisioning

[oilwell1415 563]

13 hours ago, pullstart said:

The drums could be welded directly to the adapters and be trued in the lathe, plus slide right over the hubs.

I think you're making things more difficult than they need to be.  If you get a drum or rotor with a 5x4.5 bolt patter you can just put them on the hub under the spacer.  If you've got Subaru brakes available you could use the calipers from those and just find a rotor that will work.  You just have to get something about the same diameter and thickness, but most of them are pretty close to the same.

[Pullstart 59,730]

I’m out hacking on these VW spindles, hoping to get something I can weld to a set of WH spindles ‘fore too long.