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DKR977

855 Frame cracks swap to856 rear frame?

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DKR977

I'm simply doing my winter clean up and maintenance on my 855 and I noticed some small cracks in the rear frame near the bolts that mount to the front of the transmission.  I've read through the other Red Square postings on this issue and I do not have welding capabilities myself....so I was wondering if I were to find the rear frame from a 856 or later model that had the improved rear frame section could I just swap them out?  Or will they not line up?

 

 

 

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953 nut

The 856 frame would be a direct swap out, anything newer would be a long frame and wouldn't work.   :confusion-confused:     There may be a member near by that could do the welding for you. Go to the member map, find members near you and send them a PM asking for assistance. Would be a shame to have to buy another frame.

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ebinmaine

Do you have any pictures of how bad the cracks are?

@Lee1977

Not positive but I think it was him did a bolt-on repair that has a brace made out of angle iron. If the cracks aren't too bad you should be able to get away with using that.

 

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The Tool Crib
25 minutes ago, ebinmaine said:

Do you have any pictures of how bad the cracks are?

@Lee1977

Not positive but I think it was him did a bolt-on repair that has a brace made out of angle iron. If the cracks aren't too bad you should be able to get away with using that.

 

 Eric I did the same thing on my 855 when I pulled it apart and found cracks around that area supposedly that was a problem then. I welded up the cracks and then put a plate redrilled the holes put longer bolts and fixed that problem .

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Lee1977

Mine wasn't broke, I would have welded it if it had been. That was some one else that bolted there's It in the same tread.. I did brace my 312-8 that I use for dirt work. I got the idea form some one on the board. I wanted to make it stronger to keep it from breaking. 

I added a plate in front the transmission mount and braced it with  1 1/2" x 1/4" flat on each side.  I didn't have a plate larger enough to cover the hold transmission mount. There is also a spacer behind the plate shown as there are ridges stamped in to the transmission plate. The picture below was taken before I tacked it  together , I took it back off to weld it.

 

SAM-0460-1.jpg

Edited by Lee1977
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pullstart
21 minutes ago, Lee1977 said:

Mine wasn't broke, I would have welded it if it had been. That was some one else that bolted there's It in the same tread.. I did brace my 312-8 that I use for dirt work. I got the idea form some one on the board. I wanted to make it stronger to keep it from breaking. 

I added a plate in front the transmission mount and braced it with  1 1/2" x 1/4" flat on each side.  I didn't have a plate larger enough to cover the hold transmission mount. There is also a spacer behind the plate shown as there are ridges stamped in to the transmission plate. The picture below was taken before I tacked it  together , I took it back off to weld it.

 

SAM-0460-1.jpg

 

Have you found any implements not to work as they should with that brace?

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Lee1977

I think the only thing that would not work would be  a sickle bar and I don't have one. Those two hole were put there for something. The 48' deck work just fine. Those braces line up the bolt on belt guard below the foot pad. My grader blade works and it's home made and wider at the back then the Wheel Horse one.

Edited by Lee1977

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roadapples

I think it was @daveoman1966 that bolted in angle iron.. No weld. I've done the same and it works fine..

Dave had good pictures..

Edited by roadapples

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daveoman1966

This is the Template of the FRAME PLATE repair set of angle iron that I've used with great success.  No welding required.  You will need to replace the 4 original frame bolts with ones that are about 1/4 to 3/8"  longer.  

FR FIX (7).jpg

FR FIX (8).jpg

FR FIX (9).jpg

 

fr fix 004.JPG

fr fix 005.JPG

 

 

fr fix template.jpg

PATTERN-1.jpg

Edited by daveoman1966
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DKR977
13 hours ago, ebinmaine said:

Do you have any pictures of how bad the cracks are?

@Lee1977

Not positive but I think it was him did a bolt-on repair that has a brace made out of angle iron. If the cracks aren't too bad you should be able to get away with using that.

 

 

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DKR977

 

Thanks everyone for the quick replies, I'll try making the angle iron plates, thanks daveoman1966 for that information.

 

I'm guessing the angle iron will not effect the RM-367 mower deck in any way, correct?

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jabelman

thanks for posting I don't need them but I will save the template for the future.  I am surprised someone doesn't make a bunch of these and sell them?

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DKR977

Here's some photos of the cracks, they are't too terrible, thoughts?One is from the top looking down on the top of the transmission near where the hitch cable runs.

WHframecrack3.jpg

WHframecrack2.jpg

WHframecrack1.jpg

WHframecrack4.jpg

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pullstart

It would help to drill an 1/8” hole at the end of each crack, that will prevent the cracks from making it to the edges of the plate.  Use large washers too, instead of just lock washers.  Those tricks will help keep everything intact longer, with or without the angle iron braces.  I agree though, the braces are needed but the frame doesn’t look catastrophic.

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Lee1977

I would not drill a hole at the end of the crack with the transmission back there. The steel plate will be harder to drill then the cast transmission case.  I would not take the chance. 

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pullstart

The trans case is quite thick, you’d know when you’re through the steel.  If there’s any concern, you could loosen or separate the two, tape a reference mark on the drill bit and drill away..

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jabelman
2 hours ago, Lee1977 said:

I would not drill a hole at the end of the crack with the transmission back there. The steel plate will be harder to drill then the cast transmission case.  I would not take the chance. 

huh?

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wallfish

Drill the holes with no worry. @pullstart is right.

The trans case is quite thick, you’d know when you’re through the steel.  If there’s any concern, you could loosen or separate the two, tape a reference mark on the drill bit and drill away..

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Sarge

Dave's bracket braces are a great fix and quite easy to make. Even if you only own a jigsaw you could cut them out of good quality angle iron if you use the right metal cutting blade and take your time. Those pictures are deceiving - if you sandblast that frame plate you'll find twice as many cracks at minimum or even find out it's completely shattered. Push that thing hard working in dirt or similar and the remaining cracks you can't see will open all the way up - giving you a sway-backed Horse.

 

Those early rear frame plates were stamped steel - they just used the wrong alloy and it caused the part to become brittle. The stress from using blades, lifting decks or especially heavy rear implements causes that plate to flex under power - so it shatters. A good welding shop with Dave's transmission dimensions could easily build a new plate and weld it onto a stripped frame and prepped frame pretty cheap. If you ever even consider working it hard (and, why not?) I'd advise adding in Dave's bracing system. That will permanently fix the rear frame issue and not look out of place enough to detract from the tractor's value. Someone had to push that short frame pretty hard to break that plate - it's rare when those are broken since the short frame doesn't have nearly as much leverage against that mounting point as the long frame models. Might want to take a close look at the wheel hubs - the keyways are probably heavily worn from whatever it took to break the frame plate as well.

 

Sarge

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DKR977

Sarge,

 

Thanks for the reply.  I've been mowing with it for 8 years (when I bought it) so I do not know the history before I bought it at a country auction.  If I remember the cracks were there when I did a teardown and repaint back then.  Never paid that much attention to them until I did some more reading on Red Square on some other members' restorations.  

 

I only mow with my 855 so I'll monitor the cracks for the time being, I did go to T.S. today to pick up some washers to place under the bolts which will help some.  The full rear bracket/brace is a future modification I will do when I can.  If the Govt keeps me furloughed then I'll tackle it out of boredom, but this winters time and money have been put into a complete restoration of the RM-367 deck.

 

Damon

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Sarge

If the thing isn't going to get worked hard - I'd say just make a pair of the braces that Dave outlined and go with that. They are, after all - hidden underneath and shouldn't even show when finished. Simple to make from scrap iron is a plus, not to mention cheap enough. I know the feeling of being off work - I get it every year with working construction but what they have done to the government workers is criminal. There is no reason you folks should be affected by a political fight regardless of what it's about - that's just not fair. I hope for folks like you it's over soon and they do something about the loss of income - you never asked for it nor did you do anything to deserve it and should be paid back in full.

 

Sarge

 

 

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DKR977

Sarge,

Thank you for your support, our Gov't will work better when both sides realize that the success of the country is best served by both sides working together to solve the nations problems, not by finger pointing or by scoring cheap political points, but enough of that.  I've got a friend of mine that has a machine shop making me a set of Dave's brackets (it pays to have friends that can help with this sort of thing..) so I'll be bolting them up by the weekend if all goes according to plan.

Damon

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daveoman1966

For those members making the angle iron braces.... If your frame plate is badly cracked, work one side at a time to preclude catastrophic collapse.  Here is a how-to description  

WHEELHORSE Frame Plate to Transmission.docx

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WHX22

I've had more than a couple of horse come thru my barn with heavy washers welded there. Some with farmer welds and some with pro welds. On disassembly looking at the back side it  seemed to work in all cases.

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