How do we SPEED UP our log splitter?

[ebinmaine 70,910]

As most of you know we have a heavily built splitter here that was (re)built back in 2012 by a local logger. 

He was getting the very bottoms, or butt ends, of trees free from his boss because they didn't process them. 

Our splitter is pretty strong. It'll barely hesitate going through beech trees well over 20" diameter.  

 

This year we're stepping up the firewood production from approximately 4 cord to 6. 

 

We'd like to do several modifications to the splitter. 

1. Increase travel speed. A LOT. 

2. Add a pair of horizontal splitting wings near the base for an additional cut per stroke. 

 

And later...

 

3. Integrate the splitter into a table of some sort to alleviate the need of picking up wood multiple times. 

 

 

So the question is: 

How do we dramatically increase the travel speed of the cylinder? 

 

@Handy Don @pfrederi @Achto

@8ntruck @Mickwhitt 

 

Who else knows hydraulic systems? 

[953 nut 58,124]

5 minutes ago, ebinmaine said:

How do we dramatically increase the travel speed of the cylinder? 

Two ways to do it. A smaller diameter cylinder will move faster but not be as strong. A higher GP{M pump would sped up the cylinder you have.

[ebinmaine 70,910]

9 minutes ago, 953 nut said:

Two ways to do it. A smaller diameter cylinder will move faster but not be as strong. A higher GP{M pump would sped up the cylinder you have.

 

How do I determine what size/speed pump is on there now? 

 

[ebinmaine 70,910]

https://www.surpluscenter.com/Brands/MTE-Hydraulics/16-GPM-2-Stage-Hydraulic-Pump-MTE-Hydraulics-S21707-5185-9-7972-16.axd

 

 

Just a note...

[WHX?? 50,801]

What's' on it for a motor? 

[ebinmaine 70,910]

2 minutes ago, WHX?? said:

What's' on it for a motor? 

 

It's a "counter" Briggs. I believe it's too small. Maybe 6 or 8 HP. 

Perhaps a Kohler big block will land on it. 

 

 

[Achto 28,829]

If you do not already have a 2 stage pump, you will find that one will increase your speed. A 2 stage pump travels fast with no load but does slow down under a heavy load.

 

Engine size matters, but not as much as you think. A 6.5 Predator on the right combo is very effective and almost unstoppable. 

[ebinmaine 70,910]

2 minutes ago, Achto said:

If you do not already have a 2 stage pump, you will find that one will increase your speed. A 2 stage pump travels fast with no load but does slow down under a heavy load.

 

Engine size matters, but not as much as you think. A 6.5 Predator on the right combo is very effective and almost unstoppable. 

 

 

So maybe the current powerplant is adequate. 

 

We believe the cylinder is good. 

 

I'd likely replace the pump and perhaps the control valve/lever.  

 

 

Is the auto-reverse type lever still available? 

[WHX?? 50,801]

Bigger motor means more force. A 6.5 will push 22 tons. a 8 will do around 30. Motor size won't matter at all on cycle times.  

[WHX?? 50,801]

2 minutes ago, ebinmaine said:

s the auto-reverse type lever still available? 

 

Oh heck yes... Northern Tool , surplus ... lots of places.

[adsm08 2,737]

Yup, faster pump, or change the size of the cylinder. Those are about the only ways to make a hydraulic system move faster.

[WHX?? 50,801]

WTF EB you know the rules ...

[WHX?? 50,801]

1 hour ago, ebinmaine said:

splitter into a table of some sort 

Yah I need to one for mine. Should be an easy fab. Dan Got a pic of the one in you yard? 

[ebinmaine 70,910]

18 minutes ago, WHX?? said:

WTF EB you know the rules ...

 

I'll see what I can do tomorrow. 

 

[8ntruck 7,416]

I'll agree that a pump with more gpm will speed up the cylinder.  Since you would be pumping more oil, you might need more horsepower.  Have to look up the math on that one.  Pump manufacturers should have hp/gpm/operating pressure charts.

 

Another way to take cycle time out is to plumb the cylinder with a regeneration circuit.  Plumbed this way, part of the oil in the piston end of the cylinder is diverted into the rod end of the cylinder in addition to the flow from the pump speeding up the return stroke.

 

Higher flow might require larger plumbing and valves.

 

How much faster are you wanting?  What are you running now?

Edited April 9 by 8ntruck

[Bar Nuthin 986]

3 hours ago, Achto said:

If you do not already have a 2 stage pump, you will find that one will increase your speed. A 2 stage pump travels fast with no load but does slow down under a heavy load.

 

 

Edited April 9 by Bar Nuthin

[ri702bill 9,022]

7 hours ago, adsm08 said:

Yup, faster pump, or change the size of the cylinder. Those are about the only ways to make a hydraulic system move faster.

Two more - the hose or pipe size between the pump, valve, & cylinder. If it is too small for the GPM flow, the cylinder cannot get rid of fluid on the opposite side.

What is the flow rate of the valve itself???? It could be the bottleneck in the system if it is undersized.

 

7 hours ago, 8ntruck said:

Another way to take cycle time out is to plumb the cylinder with a regeneration circuit.  Plumbed this way, part of the oil in the piston end of the cylinder is diverted into the rod end of the cylinder in addition to the flow from the pump speeding up the return stroke.

 

Higher flow might require larger plumbing and valves.

He beat me to it... Speeding up the return or advance stroke - which one are you looking to increase??

[ebinmaine 70,910]

7 hours ago, 8ntruck said:

What are you running now?

We'll fire it up soon and time it. 

 

7 hours ago, 8ntruck said:

How much faster are you wanting? 

Hard to answer this without quantifying current speed vs BBT capability. 

I'd say double. 

 

 

17 minutes ago, ri702bill said:

Speeding up the return or advance stroke - which one are you looking to increase??

 

Definitely BOTH. 

 

[ri702bill 9,022]

1 hour ago, ebinmaine said:

1 hour ago, ri702bill said:

Speeding up the return or advance stroke - which one are you looking to increase??

 

Definitely BOTH. 

 

Hmmmm... To do both, everything must be Optimized to allow max flow thru the entire system. Question - is the "work" stroke with the cylinder extending (mosy likely) or retracting?? To calculate Force (P=FxA) formula states that Pressure equals Force multiplied  by the Area of the piston.  IF the work is being done with the rod extending, you have the full piston area; retracting you need to subtract the area of the rod.

To speed up the retract only, a "dump valve" can be added. It plumbs in the return line sending the fluid directly back to the tank, not thru the valve.....

Another - the engine governor - is it kicking in under load???

 

[ebinmaine 70,910]

2 minutes ago, ri702bill said:

Another - the engine governor - is it kicking in under load???

 

Yessir. That's working correctly.  

[Achto 28,829]

9 hours ago, WHX?? said:

Dan Got a pic of the one in you yard? 

 

Not a good pic & it left yesterday. 

Here is a pic of a similar set up. Having a log cradle on one side keeps you from doing a lot of unnecessary lifting. I don't care for the factory ones that bolt on though. The one that my dad made for his splitter is held on with a couple of pins so it can be quickly removed when needed, like when you are using it in the vertical position.

[ebinmaine 70,910]

3 minutes ago, Achto said:

Having a log cradle

 

We're considering all options here but leaning towards having the splitter become part of a more permanent setup that utilizes large pallets as "slider tables".

 

One would receive a log. 

Chain saw pivots in the that table. 

That cut piece falls or slides 🛝 to the splitter table. 

If the splitter had tables on both sides then no wood can fall to the ground.  

Once all split the pieces would slide off into a trailer for transportation to the stacking/seasoning area.  

 

Issue there is making the table location user friendly and ergonomic.  

[Achto 28,829]

11 minutes ago, ebinmaine said:

One would receive a log. 

Chain saw pivots in the that table. 

 

So something like this??

 

[c-series don 9,466]

I’m not going to lie, I want one of those!! I would have a 4 way wedge on it though. 

[SylvanLakeWH 27,634]

I sent this to BBT as a possible solution to her problem... HF hand powered splitter... slow, quiet, keeps @ebinmaine outside and out of her hair for days, weeks even...

 

comes highly recommended by Mrs. Sylvan...