701 SG

[WHX?? 46,932]

Completely rebuilt... new field coils, new armature, new brushes. All done by a pro auto electrical shop that does nothing but these and advertising in vintage restorations. 

 

Still will not turn motor over. Wheels it over big time with no plug in the hole but  sometimes needs a a helping twist To get things rolling. 

 

Just seems ther is no starting torque. New belts but won't even slip them when loose. 

Fresh built K161 that runs great and compression that won't quit. 

What could I be missing?

[ebinmaine 63,327]

Engine got ACR that... Isn't?

 

Brush surfaces flat to the connection points?

 

Bushings squared and lubed?

 

[WHX?? 46,932]

No... no ACR on a 701 EB ...hence the dual belts. Brushes look good and new comutator... spotless. 

No bushings but bearings free and whineless. 

Edited July 21, 2023 by WHX??

[ebinmaine 63,327]

4 minutes ago, WHX?? said:

no ACR on a 701 EB

I'zz afraid you'd say that.  

 

Have you tried to swap an SG from another known runner just for kicks? 

[ineedanother 1,365]

15 minutes ago, WHX?? said:

Completely rebuilt... new field coils, new armature, new brushes. All done by a pro auto electrical shop that does nothing but these and advertising in vintage restorations. 

 

Still will not turn motor over. Wheels it over big time with no plug in the hole but  sometimes needs a a helping twist To get things rolling. 

 

Just seems ther is no starting torque. New belts but won't even slip them when loose. 

Fresh built K161 that runs great and compression that won't quit. 

What could I be missing?

 

Nice work on the s/g. It's good to see folks still rebuilding them. 

 

You absolutely sure you have plenty of CCA?

[WHX?? 46,932]

I might add that this is a shorter version of SGs than those use on 181s and up. Swaps mean changing everything... a real pain. Plus trying to stay somewhat original. 

[WHX?? 46,932]

Just now, ineedanother said:

You absolutely sure you have plenty of CCA?

My thoughts too Ineed...next step is to jumper a bigger CCA. See what shakes. Battery in use fully charged reads good on a load tester but .

[ebinmaine 63,327]

Double check your grounds?

Add extras just for testing?

Try getting a full size (car/truck) battery jumping in to that tractor electrical system BEFORE you swap batteries.   

[squonk 39,011]

18 minutes ago, WHX?? said:

No... no ACR on a 701 EB ...hence the dual belts. Brushes look good and new comutator... spotless. 

No bushings but bearings free and whineless. 

You forgot to wire the genny!  

 

Just breaking your balls!  Did you check voltage drop in the start circuit? Plus stainless doesn't conduct through all the paint as well as plain steel.

[Achto 26,611]

1 hour ago, WHX?? said:

What could I be missing?

 

1 hour ago, squonk said:

Plus stainless doesn't conduct through all the paint as well as plain steel.

 

Just had a thought JIm.

 

I had same issues with my 701 after restoration. Adding star washers under the bolts that hold the bracket to the engine and to the bolts that hold the gen to the bracket solved the issue.

 

Fact now when I do a resto, one bolt on each part is now installed with a star washer. Much easier ground insurance that adding a pile of extra ground wires.

Edited July 22, 2023 by Achto

[Lane Ranger 10,520]

I was going to say earlier today that it sounds like a grounding issue to me.  I have two 701 short two pulley starter generators for my 701 that have both been rebuilt.  A spare as k knew they were now rare.    But Jim I know my 701 still starts slowly and builds up the cranking even with a new battery, good wire connections and ground.  But my big ground is a more of a copper end than brass and seems to corrode.  I have to clean it every little bit.   The washer issue Dan mentioned is something I might also need to look into. 
 

 

[wallfish 15,959]

Maybe you can jump a temp ground wire to the genny bolt to see if that's the issue.

Too much new paint

[WHX?? 46,932]

Good points about the grounds. Battery ground right to the block with  star washers. Genny to mount ground clean. Mount to block not cleaned. Will look into this some more. 

Don't tell Sqounky about fresh paint & grounds tho... 

[squonk 39,011]

6 hours ago, WHX?? said:

Good points about the grounds. Battery ground right to the block with  star washers. Genny to mount ground clean. Mount to block not cleaned. Will look into this some more. 

Don't tell Sqounky about fresh paint & grounds tho... 

Mount to block not clean will do it. A k181 with compression release takes about 65 amps initially to get it spinning. Imagine what that 7 popper takes without the release. Too much paint. . When I paint an engine I Roloc disc the ground points after to get them shiny where it doesn't show.

[ebinmaine 63,327]

2 hours ago, squonk said:

When I paint an engine I Roloc disc the ground points after to get them shiny where it doesn't show.

@peter lena would be proud of you.  

[WHX?? 46,932]

12 hours ago, squonk said:

You forgot to wire the genny!  

Reg. bad new one on order. More on the reg later. 

What the heck is a reloc disc? 

[squonk 39,011]

46 minutes ago, WHX?? said:

Reg. bad new one on order. More on the reg later. 

What the heck is a reloc disc? 

Look again. It says Roloc......

 

[WHX?? 46,932]

So pulled the starter again and cleaned the paint off surfaces. Was abit red... & added star washers. Zero ohms between regulator body and B -.

Seems to pull a bit better and actually started it but had give it a helping twist by hand. Once it gets rolling and the flywheel has some inertia runs it no problem. 

Finished restoring the steering wheel  so get that on and put some hours on the motor. 

@oliver2-44 PC-7 and lots of sanding. Don't much care for the bedliner i got. Doesn’t have that rubber feel to it but is glossy. 

Edited July 23, 2023 by WHX??

[ineedanother 1,365]

Are you sure you're carrying all of the  through your + cable to the s/g?

[WHX?? 46,932]

I had thought of that but the DMM says yes. I used the old solenoid cause it had a nice patina and thought maybe dropping voltage thru that but checked good.

Maybe those cables that Dan made me are bogus... think I should ask for my money back? 

 

[ineedanother 1,365]

3 minutes ago, WHX?? said:

I had thought of that but the DMM says yes. I used the old solenoid cause it had a nice patina and thought maybe dropping voltage thru that but checked good.

Maybe those cables that Dan made me are bogus... think I should ask for my money back? 

I definitely don't want to start anything  so I would swap the solenoid just to be sure @Achto or some other Dan  isn't at fault here...

[squonk 39,011]

I tossed an old "Suffix A " K181 on my engine stand. Didn't clean anything. It would bind up if it was coming up on compression as soon as the genny started spinning. If I rotated it around by hand so it was on the exhaust stroke it would spin and fire up.

 

Edited July 23, 2023 by squonk

[ineedanother 1,365]

46 minutes ago, squonk said:

I tossed an old "Suffix A " K181 on my engine stand. Didn't clean anything. It would bind up if it was coming up on compression as soon as the genny started spinning. If I rotated it around by hand so it was on the exhaust stroke it would spin and fire up.

 

 I digress. That's a great base for an engine stand @squonk ! I have a lift table in storage that I just might have to go retrieve  I think it raises about 4' if I remember correctly.

[WHX?? 46,932]

34 minutes ago, ineedanother said:

That's a great base for an engine stand @squonk

He prolly kifed it from a hospital along with the unistrut..

 

1 hour ago, squonk said:

would bind up if it was coming up on compression 

Same here but if you help it by compression to power stroke it might gain enough on exhaust & intake to gain momentum and take right off. 

1045 & 55 ...no acr...work like that but keyed right can get them to go. 

Edited July 23, 2023 by WHX??

[squonk 39,011]

35 minutes ago, WHX?? said:

He prolly kifed it from a hospital along with the unistrut..

 

Same here but if you help it by compression to power stroke it might gain enough on exhaust & intake to gain momentum and take right off. 

1045 & 55 ...no acr...work like that but keyed right can get them to go. 

15 yr. Old Horror Fright table. One of the best things I ever bought. Wheels are starting to go sou