Kohler 10hp smokes a lot

[JerryLook 73]

This things smokes like a chimney. When I first got the tractor I changed the oil. No oil came out for about 20 seconds, and then some silver goop plopped out, followed by the oil. I don’t know how long it had been since the oil was changed. It was pretty black. Also the tractor had sat for a while. Years 

 

The history of this engine is the previous owner bought it new in ‘81 (C-105 tractor). At some point he said he ran it out of oil and had the engine rebuilt. I don’t know what all that involved. Anyways now I have it. 
There is some wear on the cylinder wall but nothing crazy. Seems like all the oil it’s eating is keeping it well lubricated. Lol. 
 

Here’s a pic with the head off. Notice the puddle of oil. 
 

So without doing a complete rebuild, what are my options for getting this thing running better? A quick hone and new rings? The tractor is in poor shape. It runs and drives, but would be a lot of work to make nice again. 
I’d like to use it to haul a cart around. And maybe some other non-mower chores. I see my options as a cheap rebuild of this engine, or find something else to drop in it. Another used engine that runs better. 

[OutdoorEnvy 1,766]

That’s a lot of oil getting past the rings.  Maybe a chance the rings are stuck or something and freeing them up or replacing might work.  But if you take out the piston measure the bore to see if it’s in spec.  If it’s not no rings will fix it.
 

you could clean off the oil and do a compression test, maybe try soaking the piston and rings with marvel mystery oil to see if it is stuck rings and see if you get lucky

[squonk 43,799]

Anything less than tearing it all down and getting the bore measured with the proper tools is like pissing on a fan! 

[JerryLook 73]

Lol. Well I at least want to be behind the fan if I piss on it. 
 

I need to figure out the bore if I’m going to do rings anyways. I need to see if it was bored out and if so how much. 

[JerryLook 73]

Let’s see if this video will upload. This is how she runs now. 
 

One of my dogs in the background trying to find where the chipmunk is hiding. Haha 

Edited June 2, 2022 by JerryLook

[JerryLook 73]

Also if I wanted to do an engine swap, what other engines will bolt up? Kohler K341, M10, M12? Anything else? 
 

And I know these engines are available in other brands of equipment. But I’m wondering if they’re different in some way and can’t be used in a WH. 
I’d definitely like to try and fix this one first, but if it’s going to be a complete overhaul, I’ll probably look for another engine for it. 
 

I definitely can’t use it this way. Although it does help with the mosquitos. 

[tunahead72 2,543]

30 minutes ago, JerryLook said:

... I need to figure out the bore if I’m going to do rings anyways. I need to see if it was bored out and if so how much. 

 

You can get a clue by cleaning off the top of the piston and looking for markings there.

 

24 minutes ago, JerryLook said:

... This is how she runs now...

IMG_2160.MOV 6.86 MB · 1 download

 

Does that smoke ever stop, or does it just keep smoking like that while it's running?

 

Also, what's that dark area on the lower front section of the blower housing?  If that's oily, you might also have a leak.

[tunahead72 2,543]

19 minutes ago, JerryLook said:

... if it’s going to be a complete overhaul, I’ll probably look for another engine for it...

 

There's a couple of members in Virginia who rebuild these Kohlers on a regular basis, at a reasonable cost and from what I understand very high quality.  I wouldn't hesitate to start a serious conversation with either of them if I wanted a new engine:

@richmondred01

@oldredrider

 

----------------

 

Edit:  I should have added...  There's a ton of other guys on this forum who are fully capable of rebuilding these engines (I am not one of them ).  I didn't mean to exclude anyone.

 

Edited June 2, 2022 by tunahead72

[JerryLook 73]

You’re exactly right about the piston. There is 010 on top, so she is bored out a little. 
How tight should the piston be in the bore at TDC? I can wiggle it around a bit. Both side to side and front to back. 

 

Yes the motor has a few leaks. Honestly it’s so cruddy it’s hard to see exactly where the oil is coming from.
On the RH side of the engine there is some oil on the fins. And some green goop in front of that. I read somewhere that means there’s a crack there somewhere. Unless it’s getting past the head gasket and running down the side. That’s always an option too. There just so much oil getting pushed up. 
 

 

[JerryLook 73]

Oh and to answer your other question, it smokes like that all the time. 

[Handy Don 14,061]

Yikes. Pistons should have no wiggle. My guess is that it was run out of oil again after the rebuild. 

I'd want to know the full extent of any issues (cracks, excess internal wear/damage) before I considered investing more than a couple hours or any money.

[richmondred01 2,307]

35 minutes ago, tunahead72 said:

 

There's a couple of members in Virginia who rebuild these Kohlers on a regular basis, at a reasonable cost and from what I understand very high quality.  I wouldn't hesitate to start a serious conversation with either of them if I wanted a new engine:

@richmondred01

@oldredrider

 

----------------

 

Edit:  I should have added...  There's a ton of other guys on this forum who are fully capable of rebuilding these engines (I am not one of them ).  I didn't mean to exclude anyone.

 

Yep I can do it.

turnaround time right now 7-10 days.

[953 nut 59,924]

36 minutes ago, JerryLook said:

How tight should the piston be in the bore at TDC? I can wiggle it around a bit. Both side to side and front to back. 

 

2 hours ago, JerryLook said:

I see my options as a cheap rebuild of this engine, or find something else to drop in it.   You'll get what you pay for! You could consider one of the predator engines from Harbor Freight since you won't be doing any hard work with it.

Any movement like that is too much. A new set of rings will not do any good with a cylinder that is that bad. Considering the condition of the oil as you described it in your first post tells me the crank shaft may need to be turned also. Contact as many engine machine shops as you can to get an estimated cost for cylinder boring and crank shaft turning. If you are not able to disassemble and reassemble the engine properly yourself the cost will go up considerably.

[squonk 43,799]

If I was to spend money on that engine, I would spend enough to get it rebuilt the right way instead of throwing a set of rings in it and flushing money down the toilet.

 

That cylinder's  gotta be worn along with the valve guides. 

[Snoopy11 5,718]

22 minutes ago, squonk said:

That cylinder's  gotta be worn along with the valve guides

Wouldn't surprise me for the cylinder to be a cone shape... in this case.

I'd personally do the... "easy" thing and invest in an equivalent Carrol Stream Engine...

 

https://www.carrollstream.com/11HP-Gas-Engine-With-Recoil-Start-B-p/cs182b.htm

 

 

Don

[Jeff-C175 7,206]

2 hours ago, Snoopy11 said:

Carrol Stream Engine

 

Do they have a thrust bearing on the crank for use with WH PTO ?

 

[Snoopy11 5,718]

1 hour ago, Jeff-C175 said:

Do they have a thrust bearing on the crank for use with WH PTO ?

Indeed they do. I recommended it to @chipwitch many moons ago for that very reason.

 

Don

[JerryLook 73]

First of all let me say that I appreciate the engine suggestions. But ultimately I don’t want to spend too much money on this tractor. I figure in the current condition it’s worth a couple hundred bucks. With a new engine I don’t think it will raise the value significantly. It will still be in poor cosmetic condition. 
So basically I want to spend 200$ or less to get it going. I don’t actually need it, and could get another brand of lawn tractor used that could take its place for less than 200$. My 416-H is functional and runs great (even though it doesn’t charge the battery right now. Haha). 
 

So I think the next thing I should do is pop the piston out and see how the bore looks. If this engine truly does need a complete overhaul (which it probably does) I will be in the market for a used replacement engine. 
So are these engines specific to WH since they have the thrust bearing on the crank for the PTO? Or is that standard on the other versions of this engine. The ones that might be in a Cub Cadet or JD. 

[JerryLook 73]

I have this engine that came off a home made wood splitter. I was always told it was a Tecumseh, but it looks similar to my my K241. I’m not a small engine guy and can’t ID it. Is this a Kohler? 
 

For what I’d be using it for I guess I’d be willing to be without the PTO pulley on this mower. 

[Bill D 2,247]

6 minutes ago, JerryLook said:

I have this engine that came off a home made wood splitter. I was always told it was a Tecumseh, but it looks similar to my my K241. I’m not a small engine guy and can’t ID it. Is this a Kohler? 
 

For what I’d be using it for I guess I’d be willing to be without the PTO pulley on this mower. 

That is a Briggs and Stratton iron block.  Good engine.  Not sure how difficult it would be to fit into a Wheel Horse.  How many HP?

[JerryLook 73]

I was told it is 11hp, but I’d like to find the numbers stamped on it and verify for sure. 
 

Actually after doing some research I think it’s a 9hp model 23. 

Edited June 3, 2022 by JerryLook

[Tuneup 1,452]

Well, the good news is that, as you said, you're going to use it to haul this an that around, no thrust bearing required. I expect that the B&S will be fine. If using the PTO, no.

[Snoopy11 5,718]

20 hours ago, JerryLook said:

For what I’d be using it for I guess I’d be willing to be without the PTO pulley on this mower.

In that case... I would suggest going to harbor freight and buying a predator 212 for around $100...

 

It will do the job great for what you are needing it for...

 

You could also go with an electric start Duromax or Carroll Stream 212 that will both serve you well for a little more money...

 

https://www.amazon.com/DuroMax-XP7HPE-Electric-Recoil-Engine/dp/B00BZI1TSS?th=1

 

https://www.carrollstream.com/6-5HP-Gas-Engine-With-Electric-Start-B-p/cs170esb.htm

 

Don

Edited June 3, 2022 by Snoopy11

[SylvanLakeWH 28,392]

29 minutes ago, Snoopy11 said:

In that case... I would suggest going to harbor freight and buying a predator 212 for around $100...

 

It will do the job great for what you are needing it for...

 

Pretty easy transplant. I’ve done two.

 

 

[JerryLook 73]

19 minutes ago, SylvanLakeWH said:

 

Pretty easy transplant. I’ve done two.

 

 

Nice! A couple questions for you.
 

Were you able to hook up the throttle control on the dash of the tractor to that engine? Choke I’m not as worried about since I’d be starting the engine at the engine. 
 

Also what diameter pulley did you use? I would most likely just get another pulley for the new engine. That way I can leave the original engine pretty much intact.