Ideas needed.

[formariz 12,040]

So on my 520 I have the belt cover drilled to let the hot air out from rear of engine. I need some ideas on how to direct that hot air into the snow cab. I am sure many of you have done that . Much appreciated as always. 

[SylvanLakeWH 28,306]

@Ed Kennell did some cool stuff I’ve seen in other posts…

[bds1984 1,497]

I am thinking something like a small hood scoop pointed towards the rear.  Make a mock-up out of cardboard and then give it a go with sheet metal.

[peter lena 9,231]

@formariz  agree with the @  ED KENNELL, idea , has his set up in place for years , lots of insight ,  sure he would share , pete

[Ed Kennell 41,772]

9 hours ago, formariz said:

So on my 520 I have the belt cover drilled to let the hot air out from rear of engine. I need some ideas on how to direct that hot air into the snow cab. I am sure many of you have done that . Much appreciated as always. 

Some fab and resewing required to fit cab cloth to metal heat houser.

 

The origonal set up was with a SS blower.     I changed to a 54" plow blade several years ago.

Here you can see ;

vented belt guard

motion control foot pedal

pnuematic cylinder for foot pedal 

blade angle control lever

inside of heat houser    

 

 

I recently added a scoop over the louvered hood to capture that heat and direct it into the cab.     I can feel some air coming in but it is not really hot enough to warm the cab.  Because of the location, I do feel it will help to prevent the windshield from fogging.

 

 

Some of the other mods can be seen here;

seat and fender pan raised 2"

Foot rests moved forward 2"

filler tires

wheel weights

rear weights

front weight and frame stabalizer

2 link Vee Bar chains on rear

2 link chains on front

cab head lights

cab blinking clearance lights

cab mounted mirrors

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 24, 2022 by Ed Kennell

[formariz 12,040]

1 hour ago, Ed Kennell said:

seat and fender pan raised 2"

Unrelated to my question but curious as to why this modification. Will it make it easier to getting and out of tractor? With the cab on and dressed to the gill with the Carhart outfit and heavy boots, getting in and out of this machine is a real exercise in contortion ability for me. No way I could ever get out of it quickly in an emergency. I feel like an overstuffed stiff sausage.

[Ed Kennell 41,772]

I raised the fenders and moved the footrests forward to get more clearance for tire chains.    It probably makes it more difficult to enter as the seat is a littel closer to the steering wheel.     With the heated cab, I don't have to dress very heavy.    I find it easiest to open both doors, then enter the right side.  My right side is somewhat crowded with the blade lever and foot pedal, so it is easier to step on the right foot rest and step thru with my left leg.

 

[WheelHorse520H 708]

If you go to an auto parts store and pick up some foil hoses like they used for heating on the old VW Beetles to direct the air into the cab. Or even across the top of the dash with some small vents or a control flap or something. That’s all I’ve got for ideas. I’ll let you know if I think of anything else.

[wallfish 18,050]

Some other ideas

 

Something like this with copper tube wrapped around the muffler to feed the heated glycol? Natural convection should circulate it

https://www.amazon.com/JEGS-70601-Auxiliary-Heater-Assembly/dp/B07HB9M6TC/ref=sr_1_34?adgrpid=1337006701573286&hvadid=83562989665315&hvbmt=bb&hvdev=c&hvlocphy=51385&hvnetw=o&hvqmt=b&hvtargid=kwd-83563256751410%3Aloc-190&hydadcr=18886_10517413&keywords=caframo+fans+12v&qid=1643060315&sr=8-34

 

Or a small heater core and 12v fan with copper tube wrapped around the muffler?

https://www.amazon.com/Spectra-Premium-93014-Heater-Chevrolet/dp/B004LGWCQE/ref=asc_df_B004LGWCQE?tag=bingshoppinga-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=80882875798504&hvnetw=o&hvqmt=e&hvbmt=be&hvdev=c&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=&hvtargid=pla-4584482467995999&psc=1

 

https://www.amazon.com/GDSTIME-80mm-25mm-Brushless-Cooling/dp/B00N1Y50QQ/ref=sr_1_4?keywords=12v+cooling+fan&qid=1643061236&sr=8-4

 

With the heat in the cab it will melt the snow on you and evaporate,  fogging the windshield. I use one of the little things for a defogger. Works OK.

https://www.harborfreight.com/https-www-harborfreight-com-12v-auto-defroster-with-light-60525-html.html

 

[953 nut 59,735]

2 hours ago, wallfish said:

copper tube wrapped around the muffler to feed the heated glycol?

              With that setup you could even have a heated seat.              

[Lee1977 7,185]

Take the wallfish ideal of the copper tube around the muffler add a small oil coolant raiderator with the computer fan behind it. You could used the glycol or oil to fill it .

Just saw a small motor cycle oil cool kit on amazon little over $100 with braded lines just need a fan. It was 7 31/64" x 3 5/16" x 1 3/16".

Edited January 25, 2022 by Lee1977

[Jeff-C175 7,206]

16 hours ago, Lee1977 said:

copper tube around the muffler

 

Quote

Pretty sure you would need some sort of expansion control,  or not a sealed system.

 

If you had an 'open' tank, like the overflow reservoir from a car, you could pump out of the tank, through the copper tubing around the muffler, through the heat exchanger, and back to the tank, without needing any sort of expansion control as long as there was room in the tank for the liquid to expand without overflowing.

 

The pump you would need is likely in the 100-200 $ price range.

 

Scratch that... on second thought, many cars have auxiliary electric pumps and those range in price from under $50 up to maybe $200 or so.  Search "auxiliary water pump" to see those.

 

 

Edited January 25, 2022 by Jeff-C175

[wallfish 18,050]

2 hours ago, Jeff-C175 said:

 

Pretty sure you would need some sort of expansion control,  and not a sealed system.

 

 

Good point.  Do you think the rubber hose feeding to the heater core from the copper coil on the muffler would have enough flex to handle that expansion? Or, A water hammer device like this maybe?

https://www.amazon.com/Everflow-Supplies-HR-AA-14COMP-NL-Compression-Arrestor/dp/B07P91N7G7/ref=sr_1_7?crid=XEOLJYJ9EP0H&keywords=water%2Bhammer%2Barrestor&qid=1643082998&sprefix=watrer%2Bhammer%2Caps%2C1778&sr=8-7&th=1

Probably a good idea for a relief valve. 

The amount of coils around and distance away from the muffler could somewhat control the amount of heat and the fan is cooling it too. 

[Jeff-C175 7,206]

9 hours ago, wallfish said:

Good point.  Do you think the rubber hose feeding to the heater core from the copper coil on the muffler would have enough flex to handle that expansion? Or, A water hammer device like this maybe?

https://www.amazon.com/Everflow-Supplies-HR-AA-14COMP-NL-Compression-Arrestor/dp/B07P91N7G7/ref=sr_1_7?crid=XEOLJYJ9EP0H&keywords=water%2Bhammer%2Barrestor&qid=1643082998&sprefix=watrer%2Bhammer%2Caps%2C1778&sr=8-7&th=1

Probably a good idea for a relief valve. 

The amount of coils around and distance away from the muffler could somewhat control the amount of heat and the fan is cooling it too. 

 

How would the liquid be circulated?  A pump?

 

How much room for expansion is a function of the volume of liquid in the system and the temperature rise of the liquid.

 

I would not rely on a heater hose expanding to control expansion, nor do I think a water hammer device would be enough.

 

It's a hydronic heating system and needs what they need.

[Snoopy11 5,718]

Dang... you guys are putting me to shame.

 

I FOLLOW

 

 

Don

[Snoopy11 5,718]

19 hours ago, wallfish said:

12v fan

That is what I was pondering... something small from American Volt...

 

Don

[wallfish 18,050]

9 hours ago, Jeff-C175 said:

 

How would the liquid be circulated?  A pump?

Natural convection can circulate it

How much room for expansion is a function of the volume of liquid in the system and the temperature rise of the liquid.

Not much as just quickly calculated for 1 L of glycol -

• Change in Volume - dV - (m³, ft³, gallons ..): 0.0969

I would not rely on a heater hose expanding to control expansion, nor do I think a water hammer device would be enough.

What do you suggest might be a good solution?

It's a hydronic heating system and needs what they need.

Which is why I asked about it but thought you might have a sense of it and some suggestions because it was addressed.

 

[Jeff-C175 7,206]

22 minutes ago, wallfish said:

How would the liquid be circulated?  A pump?

Natural convection can circulate it

You would have to experiment with that.  I'm not sure how much convection you would actually get, but yeah, that's possible.

 

 

22 minutes ago, wallfish said:

How much room for expansion is a function of the volume of liquid in the system and the temperature rise of the liquid.

Not much as just quickly calculated for 1 L of glycol -

• Change in Volume - dV - (m³, ft³, gallons ..): 0.0969

Yoikes!  You been doing some homework!  I have a rule of thumb that I used to use for water (no glycol).  It expands about 4% of it's volume when heated from 70 to 180.

 

I would not rely on a heater hose expanding to control expansion, nor do I think a water hammer device would be enough.

What do you suggest might be a good solution?

I would probably shoot for an open system with a pump myself. But using forced hot air would be SOOOO much easier!

 

 

22 minutes ago, wallfish said:

It's a hydronic heating system and needs what they need.

Which is why I asked about it but thought you might have a sense of it and some suggestions because it was addressed.

I do have a 'sense of it'!  and gave suggestions without actually designing it.

 

 

[Thor27 835]

8 hours ago, wallfish said:

 

Something like this mounted at the top of the core?

Edited January 26, 2022 by Thor27
forgot pic, sorry its huge.

[wallfish 18,050]

4 hours ago, Thor27 said:

Something like this mounted at the top of the core?

That would handle the liquid expansion, pressure relief as well and open the circuit so it would probably require a pump to circulate the glycol. A 12v solar hot water pump is fairly cheap. They seem to handle about 130 deg so mounted in the system after the cooling of the core/fan it should work.

Edited January 26, 2022 by wallfish

[Lee1977 7,185]

Would not have to rap tubing around the muffler. There is enough room for a 1/2" ir 3/4" running straight under the angled cover the run to the core and back could be done with 3/8" with pressure relief and fill at the front.

Here is a couple of pictures. The larger copper pipe could be adjusted to how close it is to the muffler. Jeff let us hear you think of this.

[Jeff-C175 7,206]

22 minutes ago, Lee1977 said:

you think of this.

 

Not sure you would get enough temp rise on the coolant with just a single pass... pretty sure you would need multiple passes.  

 

Don't forget that with a small heat exchanger and fan in the cab you would probably be pulling heat out of the coolant faster than you are putting it in.

 

If that could be guaranteed at all times then one would not need to worry about expansion.

 

I think going with hydronics is more trouble and expense than it's worth.  IMHO.

 

[Ed Kennell 41,772]

2 minutes ago, Jeff-C175 said:

going with hydronics is more trouble and expense than it's worth.

I had the same thought Jeff.      My simple vented belt guard collector keeps my cab 30 degrees warmer than the outside temp.

I understand , sometimes we all need a project regardless of how effective or expensive it may be.

[Lee1977 7,185]

5 minutes ago, Jeff-C175 said:

 

Not sure you would get enough temp rise on the coolant with just a single pass... pretty sure you would need multiple passes.  

 

Don't forget that with a small heat exchanger and fan in the cab you would probably be pulling heat out of the coolant faster than you are putting it in.

 

If that could be guaranteed at all times then one would not need to worry about expansion.

 

I think going with hydronics is more trouble and expense than it's worth.  IMHO.

 

You could two or three 1/2" pipe against the muffler I f you built two manifolds it would be there a while using 3/8" to and back.

[Jeff-C175 7,206]

26 minutes ago, Lee1977 said:

You could two or three 1/2" pipe against the muffler I f you built two manifolds it would be there a while using 3/8" to and back.

 

It would certainly take a pretty fair amount of experimentation to get it working just right, (if it even could be made to work right!)  that's for certain.

 

 

Edited January 26, 2022 by Jeff-C175