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520hC-120

Kohler Command Orientation

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520hC-120

Hi guys. I have a 1055 pulling tractor. The 10HP that was original blew up recently. I am rebuilding that motor and keeping FYI. I have a Kohler Command 16 vertical shaft. Can this motor be oriented to be a horizontal shaft? What must be done to reach this goal? There are spots to drill and tap for mounting the motor horizontally but I’m wondering if it will get proper lubrication. TIA

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stevasaurus

I would think that is not possible.  Those spots may be for mounting on a wall of some sort, but still keeping the shaft vertical.  :eusa-think:

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squonk

Your oiling system probably won't work right. BOOM!!! 

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Snoopy11

In my experience... flipping this engine on its side would orient the cam above the crankshaft. I know that @kpinnc is one guy who did this... possibly successfully? 

 

However, the cam will not get lubricated properly. As far as I know... the Kohler 16 is pressure lubricated... so no issues on the crankshaft journal / rod. However, it is paramount that the cam and followers get lubricated properly... 

 

If you did this, your engine would look something like this (note the cam above the crank):

 

image.png.beabf2d09dc30dfd760a1206c48477a4.png

 

I'm not saying that this wouldn't run... because it would. But, for how long? :confusion-confused:

 

If you decided to do this, I would use some oil with VERY high ZDDP content. This is the only hope for the cam lobes and cam followers. 

 

Some guys I know did this, but they used a scavenging pump to get oil from the "oil pan," tap a hole in the block, and shoot it across the cam lobes. Might be something for you to consider.

 

Other points of consideration... cam end lubrication. Neither ends of the cam, either flywheel side, or cover side are going to get enough oil. The crankshaft bearings should get enough oil... but no guarantee. 

 

You cam ends are very high in the engine... if tilted horizontally...

 

SumpTorque.jpg?8409165306450885118

 

Again, anything can be done... but how long it lasts... no one can tell you. 

 

Don

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kpinnc

Many engine manufacturers now use common parts between vertical and horizontal oriented engines. For any chance of success, you have to do your homework to ensure you have everything you need parts-wise.

 

Some Kohler Command engines can be oriented either way. But there are bits and pieces that have to be used exclusively from one to the other. The blocks may be different, or maybe just the sump cover. 

 

On my Vanguard, the heads, valves, pistons, and rods are interchangeable. But the blocks are different, and so is the sump cover/ bearing plate. Even the cranks are different. The carb and oil pumps are also oriented differently. The cams have full pressure oil so they are fine up top.

 

Anyway, yes you can change orientation on one of these engines. But you can drop enough money for parts to likely buy a good used engine. Possibly a new one. If you don't have some parts already, you should put a budget together. Otherwise it can be expensive- and no guarantee of success. 

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520hC-120

Very informative answers everyone. Just this morning I bought a K301. It’s off a cub cadet and has the deep oil pain. I’m taking that off and putting one on off a wheel horse. Bought it for $150 and it is complete and running great. 

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Gregor
1 hour ago, 520hC-120 said:

Just this morning I bought a K301. It’s off a cub cadet and has the deep oil pain. I’m taking that off and putting one on off a wheel horse.

Not to sure about that either. The oil dipper on the rod may not fit in your shallower pan.

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Gregor

@Thor27 Made this statement in another thread back in July. He may be able to shed some light on switching from vertical, to horizontal.

 

I converted a mv18 to run horizontally five or so years ago, my memory isn't the greatest but here is my take away:

Use the manual!  

Big things you need are bearing plate/side cover, and crankshaft. Try to get them from the same engine. (try a-z,  i used one of the big recyclers on epay)

Mine was not from a wheel horse so I'm using an electric pto.

You will also need intake and exhaust manifolds, air cleaner elbow(a-z), all the external governor pieces (parts tree) dip stick, oil fill, oil pick up, breather tube.

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520hC-120

I know this is unorthodox. I trimmed the oil dipper so the shallow pan will fit. I rounded it out with a file and sanded it to 400 grit. I did cover the inside of the motor with rags to prevent shavings from getting in there. It is now clearing the shallow pan. 

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Maxwell-8

@520hC-120PLus a Kohler command would be hard to fit: do it being OHV 

I bought this horse, dude had to elevate the hood and put it longitudinal

image.png.45bde631aea656d1bdf59d0b67ecba29.png 

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Snoopy11
1 hour ago, 520hC-120 said:

I know this is unorthodox.

HAH! You should see what all has to be done on my 457... TALK about unorthodox... :laughing-rolling:

 

Don

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Snoopy11

If memory serves me correctly... you can put a quarter coin against the oil pan, rotate the crank over, and as long as the dipper clears the case and the quarter coin... it is enough clearance. 

 

Music to my ears...:violin:

 

Don

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Snoopy11

Sounds like everything is buttoned up in this thread!

 

:romance-grouphug:

 

Don

Edited by Snoopy11

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Thor27
20 hours ago, kpinnc said:

Many engine manufacturers now use common parts between vertical and horizontal oriented engines. For any chance of success, you have to do your homework to ensure you have everything you need parts-wise.

Anyway, yes you can change orientation on one of these engines. But you can drop enough money for parts to likely buy a good used engine. Possibly a new one. If you don't have some parts already, you should put a budget together. Otherwise it can be expensive- and no guarantee of success. 

 

Absolutely 100%   I did a M18 v to h conversion, with used stuff it cost me at least 3X what I just bought a complete M18 for.  With that said these engines are becoming hard to find and I wanted to see if I could do it. 

 

I was kind of pleasantly surprised how well it turned out. With that said it's been off the tractor once already, and I am still trying to find a mystery oil leak.

 

 

 

Edited by Thor27
tried unsuccessfully to add video
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