Part time electric fuel pump

[wallfish 15,905]

The big Kohler engine would need to crank for a bit to start after sitting but it would fire right off quickly when restarting within a day or short term. Installed an electric fuel pump to solve the issue but I didn't want to listen to it running and thumping the whole time while cruising around at shows and such. A primer bulb is typically my go to fix but for this rig it's a better set up with an electric pump. Since the engine runs perfectly fine except for the slow starting, I decided to wire the pump to the starting circuit instead of a full time circuit when it's running. It pumps only when engaging the starter and the engine fires right up now. No need for it to click and run the whole time and the tired mechanical pump can still pull fuel through the check valves of the electric pump no problem so far. Just   for anyone considering installing an electric fuel pump. 

[squonk 38,844]

Once my engine is running I can't hear my Facet Posi flo pumps running. You got supersonic hearing? Maybe John is Lee Majors in disguise? 

[roadapples 6,981]

8 minutes ago, squonk said:

Once my engine is running I can't hear my Facet Posi flo pumps running. You got supersonic hearing? Maybe John is Lee Majors in disguise? 

[pacer 3,159]

40 minutes ago, squonk said:

Once my engine is running I can't hear my Facet Posi flo pumps running. You got supersonic hearing? Maybe John is Lee Majors in disguise? 

 

Me neither, in fact if theres any side noise - windy or one of ... gazillions of driilling rigs going by. I have to bend over a bit to make sure mine is running.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[peter lena 8,033]

@squonk agree with the facet posi flow quiet , using mine a couple of years now , no noise or issues , pete 

[oldlineman 1,450]

Can't hear my Faucet pump either once engine fires. Bob           Great idea Wallfish if it works for you that's all that matters!

Edited October 8, 2021 by oldlineman

[wallfish 15,905]

This is not on a WH and it's located right near the seat on a Roof tractor. It's not a Facet pump either. The muffler used is a small car muffler so the engine noise iis quieter than your normal tractors are . Still, why run it all the time when it's not needed?

[peter lena 8,033]

@pacer , added a single green  LED  light just above my ignition switch , to verify my pump operation , no issues, pete

[squonk 38,844]

12 hours ago, wallfish said:

This is not on a WH and it's located right near the seat on a Roof tractor. It's not a Facet pump either. The muffler used is a small car muffler so the engine noise iis quieter than your normal tractors are . Still, why run it all the time when it's not needed?

There is probably an internal relief that modulates pressure. Lot easier to control and keep pressure consistent then turning on and off.

[formariz 11,849]

On 10/9/2021 at 12:17 AM, wallfish said:

This is not on a WH and it's located right near the seat on a Roof tractor. It's not a Facet pump either. The muffler used is a small car muffler so the engine noise iis quieter than your normal tractors are . Still, why run it all the time when it's not needed?

I have electric fuel pumps in one RJ and in a 551 both having a switch. I also basically only switch them on to start tractors and when tanks are about only 25% full since depending on inclination they will get fuel starvation due to the decreased pressure. I also noticed that depending where pumps are mounted in relation to tank they can be noisier than expected. We have one with the pump mounted where the mechanical one was that can be clearly heard all of the time. 

[Handy Don 10,547]

2 minutes ago, formariz said:

when tanks are about only 25% full since depending on inclination they will get fuel starvation due to the decreased pressure

Had the Lawn Ranger stall in the middle of an uphill last week and it wouldn't restart. Finally realized the gas in the tank was lower than the carb. Too used to things that have fuel pumps!

[formariz 11,849]

Just now, Handy Don said:

Had the Lawn Ranger stall in the middle of an uphill last week and it wouldn't restart. Finally realized the gas in the tank was lower than the carb. Too used to things that have fuel pumps!

Used those two tractors extensively to work around here and it was evident over the years that on a slight uphill under load they would get fuel starved unless tanks were close to full. Even though theoretically the carburetor will only pull so much fuel , the reduced gravity created pressure on the line does actually make a difference. 
 

Also on a 520H blowing snow with a two stage on a long steep driveway going uphill, fuel starvation will occur. Towards the middle of the ascend it will start hunting. On the downhill it would work fine. Changed to an electric pump, and it always performs well. Vacuum pump was changed to a new one thinking that was the problem but it wasn’t. 
 

 Most of the time these things go unnoticed or don’t occur. However when presented with extreme circumstances it is obvious that nothing performs as well as an electric pump which will deliver constant sufficient fuel pressure regardless of situation. 

[wallfish 15,905]

On 10/9/2021 at 8:04 AM, squonk said:

There is probably an internal relief that modulates pressure. Lot easier to control and keep pressure consistent then turning on and off.

Just playing devil's advocate here. It really doesn't matter to me how anyone does it

Not sure I understand what is  "Lot easier" to control. I don't need to control anything. The electric pump only needs to be run for extra fuel pressure during starting purposes. Then the original mechanical pump does what it does and takes over all of the fuel pressure needed as normal. It seems to run flawless up hill or down hill so far with the original mechanical pump operating. There's no extra switch or anything to touch to turn it on and off. It's just wired along with the same 12v power that activates the starter solenoid. It's all automatic.

One reason I changed it to run only part time was a fuel leak in the fuel line. I tried some copper tubing since the fuel line runs through the same tunnel with the driveshaft and it had developed a hole in it. The electric pump pushed a crap load of fuel out of that leak and it will always do so at a much faster rate because of the higher pressure vs the vacuum pressure in the line of the mechanical pump. That's a good reason alone to not have an electric pump run full time if it's not completely necessary. Plus this setup doesn't require a super dependable fancy $60 pump, only $10 and since it's operating 99.9% less time than a full time operating pump, it should last quite a while. (Hopefully LoL) It will run and start without it but now it starts much faster.

[Bob Lister 141]

This seems like a good solution to your problem to me. I have a 312 that will run all day and restart easily but like yours if it sits it will crank to battery dead if I don't give it  squirt of gas.  I may steal your idea is it doesn't involve extra swiches

[oliver2-44 8,834]

On 10/8/2021 at 6:17 PM, wallfish said:

The muffler used is a small car muffler so the engine noise is quieter than your muffler normal tractors are .

May I ask what small car muffler you used?  Would it fit on a C series. I sure would enjoy a quieter muffler

[wallfish 15,905]

I bought it from SummitRacing.com,  It's used on a Roof 60 tractor with a big K532 20hp engine. 1 1/2" inlet. They might sell smaller ones too but IDK. Find the smallest one you can and use pipe adapters to make it fit ?

Tried looking for the same one but can't seem to find it. It was only about $25 too.