48 inch Side Discharge Deck Restoration

[Horse Newbie 6,859]

Last night I laid down some Rustoleum Regal Red on the deck and some of the hardware…

 

Happiness is a red shop floor…

[Handy Don 10,609]

Just now, Horse Newbie said:

Last night I laid down some Rustoleum Regal Red on the deck and some of the hardware…

 

Happiness is a red shop floor…

Looks sunburned to me  but what do I know.

[Jeff-C175 7,195]

2 hours ago, Horse Newbie said:

Happiness is a red shop floor

 

That overspray gets everywhere!

 

I was painting OUTSIDE one day.  It was a calm day.  I had the garage doors open.  I had to clay bar three cars that were covered in overspray.

 

Lesson learned, close the garage doors!

[kpinnc 10,740]

1 hour ago, Jeff-C175 said:

Lesson learned, close the garage doors!

 

Wife dang near killed me when I turned her Tundra pink a few months back. 

 

A lesson many of us have learned!

[kpinnc 10,740]

4 hours ago, Horse Newbie said:

 

Happiness is a red shop floor…

 

Hurry up with that thing. You need to paint a hood, fender, and assorted parts from my stuff! 

 

Looks too nice to scratch up and splatter green juice all over! 

[Horse Newbie 6,859]

16 hours ago, kpinnc said:

 

Hurry up with that thing. You need to paint a hood, fender, and assorted parts from my stuff! 

 

Looks too nice to scratch up and splatter green juice all over! 

I’ve got 2 cubs to wear out before the Wheel Horses start cutting weeds…

[Horse Newbie 6,859]

Do any of you guys know if the center/double pulley on the 48 inch side discharge deck has the same groove width on both pulleys?

 

I took a quick look at my center pulley last night and it appears to me that the deck belt and the PTO belt are different widths.

 

I will post a pic when I get home…

Edited May 10, 2022 by Horse Newbie

[davem1111 1,932]

I'm trying to work my way through this long thread and am only up to page 3, but have found some helpful info already.  

 

I am having a lot of frustration with several decks.  I have a 42" that came with the 312-A (bought used, not sure if it was original for that model year).  It cuts okay, not great.

 

Recently I bought a used GT-1848 and a very used 416-8. Both came with 48" decks but neither has the model number plate on them any more.  I assumed they were exactly the same but now I'm not so sure.

 

First thing I did was put new blades on the 416's deck, which appeared to be in better shape, i.e. no visible holes or bends. However, when I removed the blades, one of the spindle shafts has "rounding out" damage like shown in a picture early in this thread.  I took the shaft out but it looks like replacements (shaft only!) are anywhere from $40-75.  My next thought was to pull the shaft or whole spindle from an old beat up 42" deck (42MS05?) but those appear to be different and I can't get any of them to come loose.  Next I thought I'd pull one from the other 48" deck, and I haven't been able to get one of those loose yet either and the pulleys seem different.

 

One thing I did try that may not be "kosher" is, I added another washer under each blade, thinking that would put the blade down below the worn spot, and it cut beautifully for about 30 minutes, then that blade started free spinning.

 

Since I don't have the actual model numbers of the 48" decks, does anyone know if there are different models of those and how to identify them without the model number plate?  I'd like to figure out if they are interchangeable and/or make sure I'm buying the right replacements if I bite the bullet and spend the $$.  I can post some pictures tomorrow if that would help.

 

Another thing I may try is welding some new metal where the wearing exists and grind it down to fit the blade on, but will have to be very careful not to damage the threads.

 

Thanks!

[Handy Don 10,609]

6 minutes ago, davem1111 said:

found some helpful info already

I simply don't have enough deck knowledge to help but am following to gain some along with you!

[Lee1977 6,217]

2 hours ago, davem1111 said:

I'm trying to work my way through this long thread and am only up to page 3, but have found some helpful info already.  

 

I am having a lot of frustration with several decks.  I have a 42" that came with the 312-A (bought used, not sure if it was original for that model year).  It cuts okay, not great.

 

Recently I bought a used GT-1848 and a very used 416-8. Both came with 48" decks but neither has the model number plate on them any more.  I assumed they were exactly the same but now I'm not so sure.

 

First thing I did was put new blades on the 416's deck, which appeared to be in better shape, i.e. no visible holes or bends. However, when I removed the blades, one of the spindle shafts has "rounding out" damage like shown in a picture early in this thread.  I took the shaft out but it looks like replacements (shaft only!) are anywhere from $40-75.  My next thought was to pull the shaft or whole spindle from an old beat up 42" deck (42MS05?) but those appear to be different and I can't get any of them to come loose.  Next I thought I'd pull one from the other 48" deck, and I haven't been able to get one of those loose yet either and the pulleys seem different.

 

One thing I did try that may not be "kosher" is, I added another washer under each blade, thinking that would put the blade down below the worn spot, and it cut beautifully for about 30 minutes, then that blade started free spinning.

 

Since I don't have the actual model numbers of the 48" decks, does anyone know if there are different models of those and how to identify them without the model number plate?  I'd like to figure out if they are interchangeable and/or make sure I'm buying the right replacements if I bite the bullet and spend the $$.  I can post some pictures tomorrow if that would help.

 

Another thing I may try is welding some new metal where the wearing exists and grind it down to fit the blade on, but will have to be very careful not to damage the threads.

 

Thanks!

Yes the pulleys for a 42" deck are smaller as the blades are shorter and the blade tip speed is the same. The spindle housings are the same on the later model decks. There are two different two spindle sizes later 70's and early 80's the spindle were 3/4" top and bottom they used 6203- RR12 bearings  40mm OD with 3/4" ID. Some where in the 80's they changed to metric spindles 3/4" blade 17mm for standard 6203 bearings and 5/8" for the pulley. As I already the housing are the same for both but every thing but the blade is different between the two types. Been at this for 45 years and used Double D, 3/4" keyed, and Metric spindles on my 48" deck. I now have two 48" and a 42" that came with my 520.

I lucked up and was given a good solid 48"deck. Most of the paint was still on both side, but left out side and the pulleys were rusted in the groove. I shaped a wood vee to fit groove rapped it with sandpaper and was able to use them. My other 48" beck is 45 years old so I ordered a new set of pulleys for the 48" deck Double pulley WH no. 110147 Single pulleys WH no.110146

To answer Horse Newbie's question the center pulley on a 48" is the same size on both grooves, My 520  with 48" mule drive belt is 1/2" x 103" WH 94-2501, the deck belt is1/2" x 107" WH 1594.  

Edited May 9, 2022 by Lee1977

[davem1111 1,932]

9 hours ago, Lee1977 said:

Yes the pulleys for a 42" deck are smaller as the blades are shorter and the blade tip speed is the same. The spindle housings are the same on the later model decks. There are two different two spindle sizes later 70's and early 80's the spindle were 3/4" top and bottom they used 6203- RR12 bearings  40mm OD with 3/4" ID. Some where in the 80's they changed to metric spindles 3/4" blade 17mm for standard 6203 bearings and 5/8" for the pulley. As I already the housing are the same for both but every thing but the blade is different between the two types. Been at this for 45 years and used Double D, 3/4" keyed, and Metric spindles on my 48" deck. I now have two 48" and a 42" that came with my 520.

 

So if I'm understanding you correctly, if I measure the diameter of the spindle shaft at the top where the pulley goes on, and it's 3/4", that would be the older 48" model; if 5/8" that's the newer model.  So those shafts wouldn't be interchangeable. But the whole spindle and pulley should be able to be used on either one, correct?  (Probably not a good idea in the long term to mix them on the same deck to avoid future confusion though).  

 

It makes sense what you're saying about the 42" deck pulleys, because of blade tip speed - I hadn't thought of that.  But also with these, are you saying that the spindle housing and shaft would be interchangeable with those on the 48", but just use different pulleys and blades?  I'd like to salvage the spindles from the one old 42" deck that would need a lot of welding to repair.

 

Maybe I should just invest in a new or very good used set of 3 spindles so I can get one 48" deck into tip top shape, but don't really have the budget to spend $400-500 on these unless I sell or trade something. 

 

9 hours ago, Lee1977 said:

[...] but left out side and the pulleys were rusted in the groove. I shaped a wood vee to fit groove rapped it with sandpaper and was able to use them. My other 48" beck is 45 years old so I ordered a new set of pulleys for the 48" deck Double pulley WH no. 110147 Single pulleys WH no.110146 [...]

 

That's a good idea for cleaning up rusted pulley grooves - thanks!   I've bent a few of them a bit also, even using the "Wonder Bar" method mentioned in @peter lena 's thread.  Hasn't worked for me yet.  Maybe that was good for a different model but I can't seem to get the pry bar anywhere close to the shaft under the pulleys.   I have a feeling I'm going to be using a grinder to destructively remove some of these.

 

Edited to add:   I put a caliper on the threaded part of the pulley end of the shafts on both 48" decks, and it looks like they are both 3/4".  Makes sense since the GT is a 1982-3 and the 416 is around the same or even older.  So right now my biggest challenge is just being able to remove at least the shafts without damaging anything. Bearings seem to be in decent shape on all the spindle housings so I will probably leave those alone if I can.

Edited May 9, 2022 by davem1111

[davem1111 1,932]

Worn blade position on spindle from "good" 48" deck:

 

 

First one from other deck:

 

 

 

I'm kind of assuming, but think it makes sense, that the metal on the shaft where the blade rides should be about even with or a tad wider than the threads.  Blade has to pass over the threads, but then should be snug on the shaft so it doesn't vibrate or move around and wear away the metal. 

 

And I'm not entirely thrilled with this design, as it seems to be inviting just this kind of problem.  I'm actually wondering now if there are spindles from some other brands that are better designed and would fit these.  Anyone know?

 

 

[Lee1977 6,217]

I have had both 3/4" keyed and metric on my old 48" deck at the same time. You don't need the keys on the 3/4" spindle they have a spacer between the bearings just like the metric but will need the lock washer under the 3/4' nut.

Penetrating oil, heat, map gas might get it hot enough to breakup the rust, propane won't.  The other method you need a brass hammer, block up deck to be sure the spindle has room to move. Remove lock washer replace nut level with top of spindle then hit it with the brass hammer. There isn't a good way to get rusted spindles apart, you can damage the spindle and bust the snap ring groove off the aluminum housing with the hammer, I have done both. 

 

The problem is they didn't tighten them up and they worked loose, or they hit rocks and roots and knocked them loose and then ran them loose. 

Edited May 9, 2022 by Lee1977

[davem1111 1,932]

3 hours ago, Lee1977 said:

I have had both 3/4" keyed and metric on my old 48" deck at the same time. You don't need the keys on the 3/4" spindle they have a spacer between the bearings just like the metric but will need the lock washer under the 3/4' nut.

Penetrating oil, heat, map gas might get it hot enough to breakup the rust, propane won't.  The other method you need a brass hammer, block up deck to be sure the spindle has room to move. Remove lock washer replace nut level with top of spindle then hit it with the brass hammer. There isn't a good way to get rusted spindles apart, you can damage the spindle and bust the snap ring groove off the aluminum housing with the hammer, I have done both. 

 

Now I'm not sure if I'm getting less confused or more.... (not because of what you said).

 

I managed to get one of the spindle shafts out of the second 48" deck (let's call it the "doner" deck).  Blade still attached - I'm going to need to put that in the vise and torch it to get it apart, if even that will work.  Anyway, this shaft is a keyed 3/4".   Checking the one from the "target" deck again, it's 5/8" all the way through the housing.  I.e., 3/4" shaft will not go into the housing on the target deck, or at least, not through the inner races of the bearings on it.  I'm guessing that I could swap the bearings, or maybe best is to try to swap the whole housing.   One thing that I guess is obvious is that the pulleys will not be interchangeable (keyed vs. not keyed).  So I need to be extra careful about bending pulleys unless I want to buy some new ones.  

 

Now I'm wondering about the ones on the 42" deck again, but danged if I can get any of those to come loose.    Will hit them with the torch when I get time. 

 

[Lee1977 6,217]

I t's 17 mm that's ,6693     

5/8" is .625  the difference between them is ,0443

It's not much but it's bigger.

[Horse Newbie 6,859]

Like @Lee1977 said … I don’t believe there is any good way to remove rusted on pulleys from spindle shafts, or rusty spindle shafts from a spindle housing… on my deck that this thread is about I mushroomed the tops of two of my spindle shafts trying to beat them out… cut them off with a die grinder, then used a punch to get them started down through the spindle housing. And this was after about 2 weeks of soaking with every kind of penetrating oil I had, and heat from a MAPP torch…No telling what I did to the old bearings while doing this…

 

I also bent up my pulleys try to get them off the spindle shafts.

Since my spindle housings were either broken, or in bad shape I was left with not much choice except bite the bullet and buy new parts.

Was it worth it ?… I don’t know yet, but I will have what amounts to a new 1994 SD deck, and that was kinda the thought when I decided that the refreshed 1994 520H deserved a decent deck.

 

I know for the same money you cannot get a deck built like these today…( for the same money)…

Again @davem1111, if you do have to get new spindle housings I would reach out to 

@76c12091520h to see if he has what you need.

 

Edited May 10, 2022 by Horse Newbie

[davem1111 1,932]

2 hours ago, Horse Newbie said:

Like @Lee1977 said … I don’t believe there is any good way to remove rusted on pulleys from spindle shafts, or rusty spindle shafts from a spindle housing… on my deck that this thread is about I mushroomed the tops of two of my spindle shafts trying to beat them out… cut them off with a die grinder, then used a punch to get them started down through the spindle housing. And this was after about 2 weeks of soaking with every kind of penetrating oil I had, and heat from a MAPP torch…No telling what I did to the old bearings while doing this…

 

I also bent up my pulleys try to get them off the spindle shafts.

Since my spindle housings were either broken, or in bad shape I was left with not much choice except bite the bullet and buy new parts.

Was it worth it ?… I don’t know yet, but I will have what amounts to a new 1994 SD deck, and that was kinda the thought when I decided that the refreshed 1994 520H deserved a decent deck.

 

I know for the same money you cannot get a deck built like these today…( for the same money)…

Again @davem1111, if you do have to get new spindle housings I would reach out to 

@76c12091520h to see if he has what you need.

 

 

At this point I have at least one good 3/4" spindle, shaft and pulley from the one deck that I can put on the other one.  On the downside, I'll have one side and center 5/8" and one side 3/4", but I think as long as the pulleys and blades are the right size and are secure, it shouldn't matter.  That said, I also found out that A-Z Tractors has some shafts of both sizes, both new and used, but the prices are a bit disheartening.  A bit better than what's on eBay but still a bit tough to swallow.

 

I got a new tank of oxygen and MAPP this morning, so I think this coming weekend I'll hit some of those other stuck parts.  Out of two 42" and two 48" decks, (one 42" is in good working condition...) if I end up with one good 48" deck also I'll be happy. Then I'll probably try to find someone who wants to buy all my leftover parts. 

 

Oh, BTW, I found this when I took a spindle off the deck I'm trying to fix up:

 

 

 

So, changing plans again a bit.  I'm going to need to take this all apart and either swap this plate with the other deck, or do some welding.  Either will work, but if I can get the spindles off both decks I think my first choice will be a swap with a complete repaint.  And yeah, I should drill some holes and weld those cracks in the shell.  I just saw it mentioned that drilling holes can help relax the stress on existing cracks, but not exactly sure where these should be drilled.  

 

Oh well, it will be sweet when it's done - not as nice as yours by a longshot, but decent.  I have no intention of investing enough time in this to get it looking "new". 

[Jeff-C175 7,195]

47 minutes ago, davem1111 said:

I have no intention of investing enough time in this to get it looking "new". 

 

I didn't with mine either since it's what I use to mow around here... but then, it was up on the sawhorses... and I had a new box of stripping pads... and... and... I got a case of the "might as wells"... and for a while, until the first time I mowed... it did look 'almost' new.

 

And then I made all those modifications to strengthen it up and did some touch up painting.. and it looked 'almost' new again, until I mowed.

 

 

[Horse Newbie 6,859]

Like @Lee1977 said … I don’t believe there is any good way to remove rusted on pulleys from spindle shafts, or rusty spindle shafts from a spindle housing… on my deck that this thread is about I mushroomed the tops of two of my spindle shafts trying to beat them out… cut them off with a die grinder, then used a punch to get them started down through the spindle housing. No telling what I did to the old bearings while doing this…

 

I also bent up my pulleys try to get them off the spindle shafts.

Since my spindle housings were either broken, or in bad shape I was left with not much choice except bite the bullet and buy new parts.

Was it worth it ?… I don’t know yet, but I will have what amounts to a new 1994 SD deck, and that was kinda the thought when I decided that the refreshed 1994 520H deserved a decent deck.

 

I know for the same money you cannot get a deck built like these today…( for the same money)…

Again @davem1111, if you do have to get new spindle housings I would reach out to 

EDIT: Don’t know how I reposted this, and managed to cut part of it out…

Edited May 11, 2022 by Horse Newbie

[Horse Newbie 6,859]

@Jeff-C175 you did a bang up job on your deck, and I believe it will serve you well for many years to come. I will mow with mine someday too, after I wear out 2 Cubs…

[davem1111 1,932]

15 hours ago, Horse Newbie said:

[...]

Since my spindle housings were either broken, or in bad shape I was left with not much choice except bite the bullet and buy new parts.

Was it worth it ?… I don’t know yet, but I will have what amounts to a new 1994 SD deck, and that was kinda the thought when I decided that the refreshed 1994 520H deserved a decent deck.

 

I know for the same money you cannot get a deck built like these today…( for the same money)…

 

 

Well, this is certainly true, unless you fall into some special deal.  But as with everything, you need the money to buy it regardless of what it's worth, relatively speaking.  Right now I don't have the budget for $500+ of deck parts.  I suppose if I can't get anything working, I could figure out a way, or if I sell some of the excess parts I now have.  So for now, I'll be making the best of what I have within reason.  Will probably save some of the refurb work for next winter when I have less outdoor things I want to do.  It's just hard to stay ahead of the grass growing this time of year....

 

[Horse Newbie 6,859]

Painted some more parts…

[Horse Newbie 6,859]

I have a question about these washers on the two bolts on the idler pulley slide bar…

are these washers supposed to be cupped ?

If they are, maybe that’s why the are referred to as “special” on the parts diagram.

 

So can anyone tell me if the new ones need to be cupped, or will regular washers work on top of the plastic shoulder washers on the deck idler pulley slide bar ?

Edited May 14, 2022 by Horse Newbie

[Horse Newbie 6,859]

So it looks like the slide bar has some worn spots that will have to be built up with weld…

Also, the oval shaped holes in the slide bar will need to be welded up and reshaped…

[Jeff-C175 7,195]

34 minutes ago, Horse Newbie said:

are these washers supposed to be cupped ?

 

I don't recall if mine were cupped or not, but it appears that if they ARE cupped it could potentially cause issues with the plastic washer 'catching' in the end of the slot.

Maybe the cup goes the other way round?  

Are you installing new plastic inserts?

 

 

My bar was similarly 'carnaged' and I got a new one from Brian at K&B rather than try my poor welding skills to repair it.