safety switches - substitutes

[David414 288]

Hey guys,

 

I am not suggesting to disconnect safety switches as they are extremely important for safe operations; just looking for substitute switches that one can purchase outside of Toro.

The switches are very basic but are extremely costly on the Toro website or PartsTree. Has any member been able to find an acceptable alternative switch that accomplishes the same function for less money than Toro?

I have a 1989, 414-8 and a 1991,  312-h.

The switches are for the PTO, seat, clutch and test switch. For example, paying $34 for a seat switch (#114240) that should be less than $10 seems grossly overpriced.

Thanks!

[Handy Don 10,552]

Quick search on the G and I found these that would work for the ganged PTO switches, the parking brake, and the hydro motion lever neutral detect (not sure what the clutch switch looks like--don't have one handy!) There is an array of button switches so sure you could find one that works.

 

https://www.zoro.com/honeywell-mini-basic-snap-action-switch-straight-lever-spdt-3a-250vac-v7-2b17d8-048/i/G4550217/

 

Might even match the existing connectors. One of the neat things about WH is that they used a lot of "off the shelf" hardware available at the time of manufacture where a custom-designed piece would not add distinct value to the product.

 

 

[ebinmaine 62,959]

Call Lincoln at A to Z and see if you can get a good used one. 

[Handy Don 10,552]

1 minute ago, ebinmaine said:

Call Lincoln at A to Z and see if you can get a good used one. 

 Another good idea!

[David414 288]

Handy Don, thanks for the info. Have you used any of the switches that are non-Toro? Any part numbers you can share?

EB, thanks but I would prefer new to used for electrical, providing that new can be brought. Just less headaches.

 

[ebinmaine 62,959]

21 minutes ago, David414 said:

EB, thanks but I would prefer new to used for electrical, providing that new can be brought. Just less headaches

Agreed overall. 

One thing about Lincoln is he only sells very good parts. 

I don't actually know if he even sells electric switches...

 

Having had mixed results with imported stuff I'd rather buy known good used originals. 

[Handy Don 10,552]

2 hours ago, David414 said:

Handy Don, thanks for the info. Have you used any of the switches that are non-Toro? Any part numbers you can share?

EB, thanks but I would prefer new to used for electrical, providing that new can be brought. Just less headaches.

 

I did at one time come close to using a new switch, but after a good hit with electrical contact cleaner and a gentle blast of air, the old one started working again so I left it.

 

I found this one in my parts bin. I think it was a parking brake switch on an '86 but the PTO and neutral switches are the same except the PTO's have longer arms (you can measure the ones you have).

You can see the specs: 10A ⅓ HP @ 125-250 VAC; ½ A @ 125 VDC; ¼ A at 250 VDC and on the other side the COM, NO, and NC pins.

  

The "C-H" manufacturer doesn't come up in any searches I've done (no shock there, nearly all the small US electrical equipment manufacturers folded or were bought since the '80s) and you can see the dimensions from the ruler. The mounting holes are at the corners and are ⅛" diameter and the mounting screws WH used are 7/64 x ¾ with staylok nuts.

 

The one in the link is higher rated electrically, correctly oriented vis-a-vie connections vs. lever, physically the same size, and has its mounting holes in the same places. The actuator arm is longer but easily trimmed off to suit the specific use.

You are not gonna get closer.

 

I do agree with @ebinmaine that quality and durability on new stuff can be iffy, especially the cheap "bargain bin" stuff, but I linked to Honeywell--a quality brand.

Good luck.

[KAA 1973 71]

I’ve been waiting for a month to get switches

i was giving the vendor a few more days then I was going to cancel and order 

these

https://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-E-SWITCH-ARCADE-MICROSWITCH-WITH-LONG-ARM/400656168473

 

Fed Ex dropped off 3 new ones today. 

[953 nut 51,511]

5 hours ago, David414 said:

For example, paying $34 for a seat switch (#114240) that should be less than $10 seems grossly overpriced.

Knowledge is power!    If you are willing to do a little research you can save some money on most things. Here is a little thread that should help you understand safety switches.

 

[bc.gold 3,399]

15 hours ago, Handy Don said:

Quick search on the G and I found these that would work for the ganged PTO switches, the parking brake, and the hydro motion lever neutral detect (not sure what the clutch switch looks like--don't have one handy!) There is an array of button switches so sure you could find one that works.

 

https://www.zoro.com/honeywell-mini-basic-snap-action-switch-straight-lever-spdt-3a-250vac-v7-2b17d8-048/i/G4550217/

 

Might even match the existing connectors. One of the neat things about WH is that they used a lot of "off the shelf" hardware available at the time of manufacture where a custom-designed piece would not add distinct value to the product.

 

 

 

You''ll find similar micro switches on an discarded microwave and the cloths dryer door safety and one under the drum drive belt idler which is NC, if the belt breaks goes NO.

 

Recently removed a bunch of drive motors from an old soft drink dispenser and there were a lot of this type of switch used.

 

Switch

 

 

[David414 288]

12 hours ago, 953 nut said:

Knowledge is power!    If you are willing to do a little research you can save some money on most things. Here is a little thread that should help you understand safety switches.

 

953 Nut I read your post before.  It's a great explanation and road map that simplifies the electrical schematics to basic simple english. I cant thank you enough for this post and all your previous posts that you contributed to the membership. 

[David414 288]

2 hours ago, bcgold said:

 

You''ll find similar micro switches on an discarded microwave and the cloths dryer door safety and one under the drum drive belt idler which is NC, if the belt breaks goes NO.

 

Recently removed a bunch of drive motors from an old soft drink dispenser and there were a lot of this type of switch used.

 

Switch

 

 

bcgold, good to know and what to look out for when disposing otherwise "junk" items. Thanks for the tip!

[David414 288]

14 hours ago, Handy Don said:

I did at one time come close to using a new switch, but after a good hit with electrical contact cleaner and a gentle blast of air, the old one started working again so I left it.

 

I found this one in my parts bin. I think it was a parking brake switch on an '86 but the PTO and neutral switches are the same except the PTO's have longer arms (you can measure the ones you have).

You can see the specs: 10A ⅓ HP @ 125-250 VAC; ½ A @ 125 VDC; ¼ A at 250 VDC and on the other side the COM, NO, and NC pins.

  

The "C-H" manufacturer doesn't come up in any searches I've done (no shock there, nearly all the small US electrical equipment manufacturers folded or were bought since the '80s) and you can see the dimensions from the ruler. The mounting holes are at the corners and are ⅛" diameter and the mounting screws WH used are 7/64 x ¾ with staylok nuts.

 

The one in the link is higher rated electrically, correctly oriented vis-a-vie connections vs. lever, physically the same size, and has its mounting holes in the same places. The actuator arm is longer but easily trimmed off to suit the specific use.

You are not gonna get closer.

 

I do agree with @ebinmaine that quality and durability on new stuff can be iffy, especially the cheap "bargain bin" stuff, but I linked to Honeywell--a quality brand.

Good luck.

Handy Don, thank you for the very informative detailed write up on the replacement switches. Great detail and source of information. To quote 953 Nut, "knowledge is power". Great way to save considerable money by not buying grossly overpriced electrical parts. Many thanks!

[Bill D 1,596]

Certain seat switches can be repaired using the PTO switches.  On my 1989 416-8 with he Onan engine I was able to replace the broken switch by drilling out the rivets holding it to the bracket, cutting the arm off a PTO switch, then attaching it to bracket with two 4-40 screws with nylock nuts.  Way cheaper than a new seat switch.  

[Handy Don 10,552]

5 hours ago, Bill D said:

Certain seat switches can be repaired using the PTO switches.  On my 1989 416-8 with he Onan engine I was able to replace the broken switch by drilling out the rivets holding it to the bracket, cutting the arm off a PTO switch, then attaching it to bracket with two 4-40 screws with nylock nuts.  Way cheaper than a new seat switch.  

Hey Bill, nearly free is great, but if (when?) that fails you could also do a search for an SPDT panel mount momentary button switch.  ~ $10. More than a micro, but probably sturdier for direct action situation.

[Bill D 1,596]

4 hours ago, Handy Don said:

Hey Bill, nearly free is great, but if (when?) that fails you could also do a search for an SPDT panel mount momentary button switch.  ~ $10. More than a micro, but probably sturdier for direct action situation.

The switch in question, PN 112418 uses the same micro switch as the PTO,  just no lever.  

[Handy Don 10,552]

8 hours ago, Bill D said:

The switch in question, PN 112418 uses the same micro switch as the PTO,  just no lever.  

Ah, thanks for the clarification, @Bill D. On my tractors it is a button switch set in the fender pan activated by a spring-loaded pin attached to the seat base.

[lynnmor 6,762]

Here is 2,377 switches to choose from.  The one you need will be there for a very low price.

[Jayzauto 89]

On 1/14/2021 at 6:50 PM, Handy Don said:

I did at one time come close to using a new switch, but after a good hit with electrical contact cleaner and a gentle blast of air, the old one started working again so I left it.

 

I found this one in my parts bin. I think it was a parking brake switch on an '86 but the PTO and neutral switches are the same except the PTO's have longer arms (you can measure the ones you have).

You can see the specs: 10A ⅓ HP @ 125-250 VAC; ½ A @ 125 VDC; ¼ A at 250 VDC and on the other side the COM, NO, and NC pins.

  

The "C-H" manufacturer doesn't come up in any searches I've done (no shock there, nearly all the small US electrical equipment manufacturers folded or were bought since the '80s) and you can see the dimensions from the ruler. The mounting holes are at the corners and are ⅛" diameter and the mounting screws WH used are 7/64 x ¾ with staylok nuts.

 

The one in the link is higher rated electrically, correctly oriented vis-a-vie connections vs. lever, physically the same size, and has its mounting holes in the same places. The actuator arm is longer but easily trimmed off to suit the specific use.

You are not gonna get closer.

 

I do agree with @ebinmaine that quality and durability on new stuff can be iffy, especially the cheap "bargain bin" stuff, but I linked to Honeywell--a quality brand.

Good luck.

 

 

Hey Don,    The C-H designation is for Cole-Hersee     Located in Boston, MA.   I believe they are still there.  They manufacture electrical switches and components.   Great stuff.  I found thru the years of working on different OPE that much of the electrical stuff seems to be 'off the shelf' ...... Almost as if the equipment designers looked thru an electrical supply catalog to find a switch or component to fit what they needed to do. 

 

          Almost like what we need to do now, to reverse engineer the parts we need to fix our tractors.    Because lets face it Toro or (Insert your favorite brand) isn't in the electrical switch business, (or tire business), they are in the Tractor Manufacture business.  

 

GLuck, Jay

 

[Handy Don 10,552]

34 minutes ago, Jayzauto said:

 

 

Hey Don,    The C-H designation is for Cole-Hersee     Located in Boston, MA.   I believe they are still there.  They manufacture electrical switches and components.   Great stuff.  I found thru the years of working on different OPE that much of the electrical stuff seems to be 'off the shelf' ...... Almost as if the equipment designers looked thru an electrical supply catalog to find a switch or component to fit what they needed to do. 

 

          Almost like what we need to do now, to reverse engineer the parts we need to fix our tractors.    Because lets face it Toro or (Insert your favorite brand) isn't in the electrical switch business, (or tire business), they are in the Tractor Manufacture business.  

 

GLuck, Jay

 

Wow, not sure how you discovered C-H but very cool to know.

Often in my previous life as a technologist I had to persuade business teams that buying off the shelf software that solved 80% of accounts payable, accounts receivable, payroll, etc. and then adding some configuration/adaptation was way more practical than trying to build stuff that didn't directly relate to our core business capabilities. 

When I was a consultant at Case Corp and touring their tractor assembly plant they were emphatic that they manufactured the transmissions (the "heart" of a good tractor) and frames and a few other things that defined and differentiated their product but that they bought engines, cabs, instrument panels, and other basic parts from manufactures that specialized in those parts. One supervisor pointed out that the Rouge Plant that Ford set up was a "raw materials in, finished goods out" place, but only because there was no other way to support an assembly line in that era!

Thank goodness we have so many wear parts for our WH tractors (bearings, seals, rings, hoses, etc) that are still available because WH chose to use basic parts in straight-forward, well-engineered ways. It is one of the reasons WHs continue to be in use today, I believe.

Edited January 17, 2021 by Handy Don