312-8 Lock or not

[Maxwell-8 4,270]

I have spare trans for a 312-8, And i needed to do some extreem offroading. I got some itp mudlites (made in USA) for on it. 

I have heard that the 8 speed in the 312-8 not the strongest is, 4 pinion, 1" axle. Mine question is know what would be the strongest,  Locking the diff or not? It may will also see a Yanmar diesel.

 

Edit: Has someone ever broke a 4 pinion 8-speed?

Edited December 17, 2020 by Maxwell-8

[SylvanLakeWH 24,093]

Not sure... by interested in the feedback!!!

 

[ebinmaine 62,973]

I'm not thinking I'd lock the diff in that or most any Wheelhorse transmission. 

At a full locking turn the outside wheel needs to turn about 3 rotations more than the inside wheel. 

That by itself is asking for broken axles. 

 

Wheelhorse did make a limited slip differential transmission from 67 to 70 in some models. 

 

Any other transmission can be locked with a welder. Care must be taken to make biiiggg wiiiiiide turns. 

 

@pullstart and @Greentored may be able to add input here. 

 

 

[stevasaurus 22,229]

No doubt, locking any differential is going to be harder on the transmission then not locking it.  Most of what you are talking about doing is done by the guys that use the horses for Pulling Competitions.  Going straight is not a problem, turning is.  Chains and wide tires are a better option for mudding or AG's.  Better yet...get a 4 wheeler.    

[Maxwell-8 4,270]

Thanks for your responses, I have ITP mudlites, great tires, just clear the fender. I was really thinking about locking it, but don't want to break nothing and "destroying" a pretty rare trans here in Belgium by welding the diff shut. You guys cleared op my mind thanks!

 

Cheapest 4 wheelers are 4000$ here and then you get a cheap chinese worn out machine. So that not an option.

I bought a very nice 312-8 for 300$

Edited December 17, 2020 by Maxwell-8

[ebinmaine 62,973]

14 minutes ago, Maxwell-8 said:

bought a very nice 312-8 for 300

Good deal!!

[Greentored 3,196]

@Maxwell-8  Im putting together a trail bomb with a 8 pinion 8 speed and locked the axles by splitting the cases and flipping the pinions. They say this is not as strong as welding the pinions, but I'm going to try it, and if something breaks, I can fix it and put it back the way it belongs. That might be an option for you- no damage that cant be reversed.  Have seen a lot of youtube videos of guys with locked axles in Wheel Horse trail machines- they appear to hold up well but I have seen a couple videos with broken hubs and one broken axle.

I had a rough 654 trail bomb with a set of cheap ATV tires, it was amazing just how much it would go through without locking the axles. The biggest problem was going over big bumps or around corners, tipping the machine slightly- if one tire picked up and started to spin, when it came down, it would wheelie, often big time---  fun, but not the best thing in low speed woods trails or on a hill.

I'm working on coming up with a 'locking hub' that would go in place of a factory hub, and would be able to be locked and unlocked when needed.  The downside is, when unlocked, there would be no differential action, it would drive one tire only.

[Maxwell-8 4,270]

1 hour ago, Greentored said:

@Maxwell-8  Im putting together a trail bomb with a 8 pinion 8 speed and locked the axles by splitting the cases and flipping the pinions. They say this is not as strong as welding the pinions, but I'm going to try it, and if something breaks, I can fix it and put it back the way it belongs. That might be an option for you- no damage that cant be reversed.  Have seen a lot of youtube videos of guys with locked axles in Wheel Horse trail machines- they appear to hold up well but I have seen a couple videos with broken hubs and one broken axle.

I had a rough 654 trail bomb with a set of cheap ATV tires, it was amazing just how much it would go through without locking the axles. The biggest problem was going over big bumps or around corners, tipping the machine slightly- if one tire picked up and started to spin, when it came down, it would wheelie, often big time---  fun, but not the best thing in low speed woods trails or on a hill.

I'm working on coming up with a 'locking hub' that would go in place of a factory hub, and would be able to be locked and unlocked when needed.  The downside is, when unlocked, there would be no differential action, it would drive one tire only.

Thanks, that is some darn good info! 

[Pullstart 59,561]

Hello and 

 

If you were to lock the diff, I’d suggest airing up those tires to induce a little less contact patch and a little slippage.  In theory, quads have a solid rear axle shaft and simply slip the inside tire.  This should work, so long as you don’t give it too much traction.  Otherwise, I agree with @stevasaurus.  It’s amazing what an open diff and weights and chains or AG tires will do.  

[Maxwell-8 4,270]

5 hours ago, pullstart said:

Hello and 

 

If you were to lock the diff, I’d suggest airing up those tires to induce a little less contact patch and a little slippage.  In theory, quads have a solid rear axle shaft and simply slip the inside tire.  This should work, so long as you don’t give it too much traction.  Otherwise, I agree with @stevasaurus.  It’s amazing what an open diff and weights and chains or AG tires will do.  

Ah, okey so  tireweights would be better off- road. I bought some rimes with weights and AG tires, but my dad thinks i will get stuck faster.

[ebinmaine 62,973]

1 hour ago, Maxwell-8 said:

Ah, okey so  tireweights would be better off- road. I bought some rimes with weights and AG tires, but my dad thinks i will get stuck faster.

Depends what environment you're trying to tackle. 

It's ultra important to remember that you're dealing with a 700 pound tractor that's designed to work at slow speeds moving heavy loads, not a 300 pound ATV that's meant for low or no weight and moving quickly. 

Two completely different purpose machines. 

There will be places you can go that a quad can't and vice versa. 

 

When in snow plowing setup my C160 weighs nearly TWICE what the stock empty weight is. 

 

 

[Maxwell-8 4,270]

2 minutes ago, ebinmaine said:

Depends what environment you're trying to tackle. 

It's ultra important to remember that you're dealing with a 700 pound tractor that's designed to work at slow speeds moving heavy loads, not a 300 pound ATV that's meant for low or no weight and moving quickly. 

Two completely different purpose machines. 

There will be places you can go that a quad can't and vice versa. 

 

When in snow plowing setup my C160 weighs nearly TWICE what the stock empty weight is. 

 

 

Twice!!!??? 

My terrain would consist overgrown woods and some mud and work on the ranch, we have a big concrete patch so. So from what i have read, that concrete would be very hard on the diff.

And ii know they are heavy. I have very strong ramps that have seen plenty mowers and other equipment. When I bought my first Wheel Horse this week, I loaded it up the trailer. bang! The ramps bent beyond repair.

 

[ebinmaine 62,973]

1 hour ago, Maxwell-8 said:

Twice!!!??? 

My terrain would consist overgrown woods and some mud and work on the ranch, we have a big concrete patch so. So from what i have read, that concrete would be very hard on the diff.

And ii know they are heavy. I have very strong ramps that have seen plenty mowers and other equipment. When I bought my first Wheel Horse this week, I loaded it up the trailer. bang! The ramps bent beyond repair.

 

My 1974 c160 came out of the factory at about 575 lb or so. 

All four tires are oversized and all four tires are also fluid filled.

The fluid alone weighs approximately 255 lb. 

I also have some steel weights I can put on the back. 

Add that all up and add the plow and chains and it comes out to somewhere around 1100 lb.

Then there's me driving it and I'm far from small.   

 

Should come out somewhere in the neighborhood of 1,375 lb if I added up right...

 

 

Without seeing any pictures it sounds like the terrain you have should be fine for a heavy tractor as long as you don't have any deep mud. 

 

 

[Maxwell-8 4,270]

WOWW that's heavy. 5 years ago, we had a ton of deep mud, but most of those places have dried up and now a normal car can go true. We already feel the climate change. a reason more to keep the diff open. Oh and finding a limited slip is impossible here.

 

How much can those hitches on 8 speeds handle, i see people adding weight to them.

 

 

[ebinmaine 62,973]

3 minutes ago, Maxwell-8 said:

How much can those hitches on 8 speeds handle, i see people adding weight to them

I'm not sure what the rated capacity is on those stock type hitches. 

 

Keep in mind that if you add weight BEHIND the rear wheels you're also taking weight OFF the front wheels.

Might not be much but you'll notice a difference in steering. 

Best bet is to add weight bolted to the frame somewhere between the axles. 

[Pullstart 59,561]

5 hours ago, Maxwell-8 said:

Ah, okey so  tireweights would be better off- road. I bought some rimes with weights and AG tires, but my dad thinks i will get stuck faster.

I know a good way to find out!  I’m thinking recovery gear might be a better tool than tire improvements...

 

I have a Subaru powered Dune Buggy but it is road legal to drive trails too.  Getting stuck is fun, but getting out with no help is an adventure!

 

 

[ebinmaine 62,973]

44 minutes ago, pullstart said:

adventure

Interesting word choice Kev

[Pullstart 59,561]

47 minutes ago, ebinmaine said:

Interesting word choice Kev

What else do you call a 4 hour recovery in the wilderness, miles from any road or help?  

[Pullstart 59,561]

EB has got you on the right course.  I am a firm believer in fluid filling tires as well.  I feel like the improved traction of fluid weight vs the same amount of bolt on weight is so much different.

 

 

[Maxwell-8 4,270]

3 minutes ago, pullstart said:

EB has got you on the right course.  I am a firm believer in fluid filling tires as well.  I feel like the improved traction of fluid weight vs the same amount of bolt on weight is so much different.

 

 

hahahaha what a mess! got you a new sub!

[Pullstart 59,561]

Something you might consider too, is a smaller rear pulley if you can find one.  It’ll increase wheel speed and keep those tires cleaned out.

[Maxwell-8 4,270]

2 minutes ago, pullstart said:

Something you might consider too, is a smaller rear pulley if you can find one.  It’ll increase wheel speed and keep those tires cleaned out.

I was considering that, 4inch in the back keep the size of the engine pulley. I have ITP mudlite (USA made), With a little bit lower treads then on the pic not much, but because the size is smaller, the knobs are smaller too

Thanks!

Edited December 18, 2020 by Maxwell-8

[pfrederi 17,129]

11 hours ago, pullstart said:

I know a good way to find out!  I’m thinking recovery gear might be a better tool than tire improvements...

 

I have a Subaru powered Dune Buggy but it is road legal to drive trails too.  Getting stuck is fun, but getting out with no help is an adventure!

 

 

 

 

 

I have spent most of my life in the Army trying to avoid getting stuck.  Since I retired up here I have been pretty successful.   I am the local go to guy for the weekenders and other idiots who get stuck. ( I have 4 wheel dive so i can go any where can't I)  I have pulled put pick ups , AWD vans, mini excavators etc...  Even Quads that died in the woods.  The M-37, M-274 Farmall M and DC-3 get it done.   Try reading FM 20-22 and stay out of the mud....the best part about being the recovery guy is the dumb SOB who got stuck has to drag the cable through the mud and hook it up ...not me.

 

 

[DennisThornton 4,769]

42 minutes ago, pfrederi said:

 

 

I have spent most of my life in the Army trying to avoid getting stuck.  Since I retired up here I have been pretty successful.   I am the local go to guy for the weekenders and other idiots who get stuck. ( I have 4 wheel dive so i can go any where can't I)  I have pulled put pick ups , AWD vans, mini excavators etc...  Even Quads that died in the woods.  The M-37, M-274 Farmall M and DC-3 get it done.   Try reading FM 20-22 and stay out of the mud....the best part about being the recovery guy is the dumb SOB who got stuck has to drag the cable through the mud and hook it up ...not me.

 

 

 

 

http://www.jeepolog.com/UserFiles/downloads/field manuals/Fm20-22 Vehicle Recovery Operations.pdf

[Pullstart 59,561]

3 hours ago, pfrederi said:

 

 

I have spent most of my life in the Army trying to avoid getting stuck.  Since I retired up here I have been pretty successful.   I am the local go to guy for the weekenders and other idiots who get stuck. ( I have 4 wheel dive so i can go any where can't I)  I have pulled put pick ups , AWD vans, mini excavators etc...  Even Quads that died in the woods.  The M-37, M-274 Farmall M and DC-3 get it done.   Try reading FM 20-22 and stay out of the mud....the best part about being the recovery guy is the dumb SOB who got stuck has to drag the cable through the mud and hook it up ...not me.

 

 

If I haven’t before, thank you for your service!  Let’s hope I’m never the sorry SOB who drags your cable through the mud