Electronics? Anybody here fluent?

[DennisThornton 4,769]

I know enough to know that I don't know enough.  And, things keep changing!  New tech!  I sort of understood tubes...

 

There's SO MUCH knowledge in this forum that I'll bet some are fluent in electronics.  Not sure this is the best place but if not then perhaps members here are members in a more appropriated group.

 

Anybody?

[8ntruck 6,358]

What are you working on?

 

I probably can't help you much.  As far as I can figure, electronics work on magic smoke.  It has been my experience that the electronic device quits working if you somehow let the magic smoke out.

[DennisThornton 4,769]

I spend more time Googling about "working on" than I actually "work on"...

 

But I just saw something that made me think maybe there was an adapter that could use a cell phone as a display for an oscilloscope?  Maybe a laptop too?  And yes there are!  But which one?  Not long ago it seems there were several choices for everything but today!  How can any mere mortal keep up?  Or have a clue?

 

The interest in the scope was to check sine wave inverters and who knows what else...  

 

I can asked ANYTHING about a Wheel Horse and get several answers in no time here.  Where do I go for electronics?

[SylvanLakeWH 24,088]

1 hour ago, DennisThornton said:

 

 

The interest ... was to check sine wave ...

I know nothing about that, but I know a guy who’s a sign waver...

 

 

Sorry... had to... 

[DennisThornton 4,769]

1 minute ago, SylvanLakeWH said:

I know nothing about that, but I know a guy who’s a sign waver...

 

 

Sorry... had to... 

My spell checker gave me trouble with sine too.  Doubt worry so much about it.

[Handy Don 10,552]

1 hour ago, DennisThornton said:

Where do I go for electronics?

I'll take this to mean you are looking at analog electronics, not digital. There used to be a lot of electronics hobbyists and magazines that catered to them they've disappeared. "Byte" magazine started out with a column by a fellow named Steve Ciarcia who designed devices you could actually build and could learn from along the way. Initially it was analog, but later he got into basic microprocessor stuff. I got a lot out of that. Some basic electronics courses, including using an analog computer, as part of my college engineering program also helped.  But even then, we could see that digital circuits were becoming increasingly integrated, smaller, and running in tiny voltages. You couldn't troubleshoot with a probe and a scope--the speeds were just too fast. You could only test with specific inputs and expected outputs.

The best suggestion I could offer, since you are in NY, is your nearest BOCES to see if they are teaching electronics and speak to the instructor. Next would be trade schools with power distribution (teaching linepersons that maintain the grids) or basic electronics courses.

As for gadgets, there are app/adaptors that do basic O-scope display on a smartphone (I've only seen them for Android) but the tool market is mainly around apps and adaptors for laptops and desktops that are used in labs.

[953 nut 51,511]

2 hours ago, DennisThornton said:

things keep changing!  New tech!  I sort of understood tubes..

Dennis, I'm right there with you. I was an Electronics Technician in the Navy during the vacuum tube era. About the time I reentered civilian life everything went to solid state and I was no longer in the industry so didn't keep up to date. I'd bet that one of our younger tech-savvy members like  @fast88pu @Sparky or @nylyon  would know.

[Handy Don 10,552]

Just did so research and found this.  For testing AC generator waveforms, this would be fine. It does require the A-D (analog to digital) converter that transforms the analog wave into a digital pattern.

https://apps.apple.com/us/app/oscilloscope/id388636804

Good luck and I hope this helps

[nylyon-(Admin) 7,114]

I find Google is my go to for tech questions.

[roadapples 6,981]

Figured out what an app was about a year ago. Still don't know how to paste and cut it...

[wallfish 15,907]

Old men and technology don't mix!

[Gregor 4,838]

I read the thread that Prondy wrote about rebuilding a Kohler, and the tools required to do it. It got me to thinking about the tools I have bought this summer, in order to pursue my new hobby. What I can remember anyway.........A good digital caliper, two styles of valve spring compressors, Bore gauge, inch pound torque wrench, Flywheel and assorted pullers, dead blow hammer, several cylinder hones, dial indicator, ring compressor, good snap ring pliers,a bench vise, (yeah, I didn't even have a bench vise), ultra sonic cleaner. and probably other things I can't think of right now. But..........I have never had so much fun in my life. I get to do what I enjoy, how " I " want to do it, and at my own pace.

[Handy Don 10,552]

2 hours ago, wallfish said:

Old men and technology don't mix!

Not sure I agree. I just helped a friend who turned 94 last week get started on a new iPhone to replace his "candy bar" LG. He called me today with questions he had as he explored and experimented. Then he texted me a couple of pictures.

[Gregor 4,838]

Not sure what I did, but my above post was suppose to be a new topic, oh well. While I am here I will ask a question. I know just enough about electronics to start a small fire, The other day I received new diodes for my 656. When I got them, I got my Fluke digital meter out to test them. They both showed open in both directions. I got my $12 Walmart analog meter out, and they tested fine. Open in one direction, some continuity in the other. Did I waste a bunch of money buying this Fluke?

[wallfish 15,907]

6 hours ago, Handy Don said:

Not sure I agree

Surely there are always exceptions to the rule but it was really meant as a joke since 80+% of the members here are old men working on their lawnmowers. I forgot to add the

But, if you give 100 random old men over the age of 60 a new Ipad without any personal instructions, how many do you think will actually be using it? Probably the same amount that figured out how to set the time on their VCR-- two. 

My FIL was in his 80s before he passed and only had a 5th grade education. It took some time to teach him how to use a PC and he was certainly a bit reluctant at first. But once he got going I created a monster. He then educated himself through the net on many different subjects from learning math to how to fix his own refrigerator which was great to see and it was actually kind of impressive. The only bad part was he constantly got malware and viruses from visiting porn sites. LoL

[953 nut 51,511]

45 minutes ago, Gregor said:

I got my Fluke digital meter out to test them. They both showed open in both directions. I got my $12 Walmart analog meter out, and they tested fine. Open in one direction, some continuity in the other. Did I waste a bunch of money buying this Fluke?

Some meters have a diode tester setting.      Perhaps the electronic meter may not have enough current flow but the analog did. Once Dennis finds an electronics expert they may be able to answer this question too.

[DennisThornton 4,769]

12 hours ago, Handy Don said:

Just did so research and found this.  For testing AC generator waveforms, this would be fine. It does require the A-D (analog to digital) converter that transforms the analog wave into a digital pattern.

https://apps.apple.com/us/app/oscilloscope/id388636804

Good luck and I hope this helps

Yeah, something like that but for android with some sort of input device basically using the Android as a smart display.

[DennisThornton 4,769]

11 hours ago, wallfish said:

Old men and technology don't mix!

I suppose at 68 I'm getting old and while I've always enjoyed technology it is running away from me now days so perhaps if I live long enough we might indeed separate...

[DennisThornton 4,769]

12 hours ago, nylyon said:

I find Google is my go to for tech questions.

Same here but there's SO much there I still need help separating and sorting it out!

[DennisThornton 4,769]

12 hours ago, 953 nut said:

Dennis, I'm right there with you. I was an Electronics Technician in the Navy during the vacuum tube era. About the time I reentered civilian life everything went to solid state and I was no longer in the industry so didn't keep up to date. I'd bet that one of our younger tech-savvy members like  @fast88pu @Sparky or @nylyon  would know.

Yep.  I was OK when simple transistors came out but soon became completely lost with ICs and logics. 

[DennisThornton 4,769]

13 hours ago, Handy Don said:

I'll take this to mean you are looking at analog electronics, not digital. There used to be a lot of electronics hobbyists and magazines that catered to them they've disappeared. "Byte" magazine started out with a column by a fellow named Steve Ciarcia who designed devices you could actually build and could learn from along the way. Initially it was analog, but later he got into basic microprocessor stuff. I got a lot out of that. Some basic electronics courses, including using an analog computer, as part of my college engineering program also helped.  But even then, we could see that digital circuits were becoming increasingly integrated, smaller, and running in tiny voltages. You couldn't troubleshoot with a probe and a scope--the speeds were just too fast. You could only test with specific inputs and expected outputs.

The best suggestion I could offer, since you are in NY, is your nearest BOCES to see if they are teaching electronics and speak to the instructor. Next would be trade schools with power distribution (teaching linepersons that maintain the grids) or basic electronics courses.

As for gadgets, there are app/adaptors that do basic O-scope display on a smartphone (I've only seen them for Android) but the tool market is mainly around apps and adaptors for laptops and desktops that are used in labs.

School is not a current option, too many Wheel Horses in need!  I understand the basics but I'm lost with new tech.  I'd just like to be able to ask some simple questions from time to time.

[DennisThornton 4,769]

2 hours ago, Gregor said:

Not sure what I did, but my above post was suppose to be a new topic, oh well. While I am here I will ask a question. I know just enough about electronics to start a small fire, The other day I received new diodes for my 656. When I got them, I got my Fluke digital meter out to test them. They both showed open in both directions. I got my $12 Walmart analog meter out, and they tested fine. Open in one direction, some continuity in the other. Did I waste a bunch of money buying this Fluke?

Probably has a Diode setting.  Now this will bother me until you find out what happened.  Fluke is certainly a good brand.

[WHX?? 46,690]

Like 953 nut I was into electronics in the Navy when things were transitioning to solid state and transistors, also to digital in the  late 70's early 80's. Kinda got out out of electronics when I got out and shoulda been a knuckle dragging ape machinists mate Richard! Found out I was better at things mechanical. Knowledge of electron flow does help me out in my trade now tho.  

2 hours ago, Gregor said:

Did I waste a bunch of money buying this Fluke?

Hate to say this Greg but probably so. Fluke and Field Piece are high end instruments  more geared to the professional tech who uses them to put bacon on the table or are flying things at 33,000 feet. 

The wally world cheapy is fine for the horse hobbyist. 

There was a fellow here once went by Save Old Iron who was a true old school electronics guru and we sure miss him. 

[Lane Ranger 10,472]

3 hours ago, Gregor said:

Not sure what I did, but my above post was suppose to be a new topic, oh well. While I am here I will ask a question. I know just enough about electronics to start a small fire, The other day I received new diodes for my 656. When I got them, I got my Fluke digital meter out to test them. They both showed open in both directions. I got my $12 Walmart analog meter out, and they tested fine. Open in one direction, some continuity in the other. Did I waste a bunch of money buying this Fluke?

the diodes used in the Tecumseh motors do run one way.  Care should be taken when install these to get direction correct for proper charging.   I think there still is an instructional on how to rebuild the Tecumseh resistor/diode board with 6 amp electronic diodes that you solder in to the board.  I did this several years ago when I. Still had some Tecumseh H-60. Six hp motors on some of my Wheel Horse tractors.  
 

I believe Ed Stiller  is the name of the guy . 

Ranger     7,235

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Posted October 23, 2009

I found this information last year supplied by Ed Stoller and it has the most complete analysis of the 3 amp system used on the Tecumseh engines of any other soruce I have seen. I made two replacement rectifier boards using the techniques that Ed Stoller outlines in the attached article for my H60 Tecumseh engines used on my Lawn Rangers.

 

 

Here  is the link so that you can see pictures: 

 

Go to Section 5.12 with this link

 

http://home.earthlink.net/~edstoller/id11.html

 

If you have one of these old motors this guidance will work for you to restore it at really low cost.

 

Radio Shack as mentioned in this link on the Lauson H55 is a good source for some of the amps and other supplies. I used Mouser's :http://www.mouser.com/

 

and they have both online and printed catalogs. Reasonable prices also.

 

I tested mine after completing two boards and they tested out between 13.7 and 14.3 (Ed notes 14.7 volts output) and that is enough to recharge a battery and run a set of headlights.

 

 

 

********

 

3 Amp, One and Two Diode, Rectifier Created April 19, 2006, 3AmpRect.wpd

 

5-12-0 General, 

 

Some of the older Tecumseh engines had a small stator under the flywheel and the Rectifier assembly on a board as shown in Figure 5-12-1,H 60A.jpg. Often the diodes fail and are no longer available, so this section is about how to replace the diodes with ones that are readily available, Figure 5-12-2, H60B.jpg. The circuit diagram is shown in Figure 5-12-3, H60Dia.jpg. 

 

 

 

 

 

Figure 5-12-1 

 

 

 

 

Figure 5-12-2 

 

 

 

 

Figure 5-12-3 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

5-12-1 Replacement: 

 

The original diodes were held in place with a fuse holder like clip that are riveted in place. I drilled the rivets out and replaced them with 4- 40 screws. The clip was replaced with a terminal lug shown in figure 5-12 -2. The replacement diodes are 1N5406 soldered to the new lugs. It is important have the banded end of the diode towards the fuse. Radio Shack has 3 Amp diodes; there 1N5402 has a 200 Volt rating which is a comfortable margin. If the original clips are held tight, one could solder the diodes directly to them. 

 

Figure 5-12 - 2 Testing:

 

To test the complete system, disconnect the wire to the BAT + terminal and run the engine at about 3000 RPM. You should measure about 14 Volts DC at the BAT+ terminal. You can also measure the AC voltage across the two GEN terminals, about 30 Volts AC. To check the diodes, shut the engine down and disconnect the wires to the GEN terminals. Most newer multi meters have a diode test function. Using this to check the diodes, you should measure about .5 Volts in one direction and open in the other direction ( by reversing the red and black meter leads). If you don

Edited December 8, 2020 by Lane Ranger

[Handy Don 10,552]

37 minutes ago, DennisThornton said:

School is not a current option, too many Wheel Horses in need!  I understand the basics but I'm lost with new tech.  I'd just like to be able to ask some simple questions from time to time.

PM me from time to time, Dennis.  Send a pic of your Fluke front panel or the model # so I can check its manual.  We'll "spur" you on! (bad pun/joke)