Electric motor help

[formariz 11,849]

I had this motor for years but no wiring diagram . Can someone help me with it?Two red and two black wires numbered 1and 2 on the black and 5and 8 on the red.

 

Edited December 1, 2020 by formariz

[squonk 38,844]

115V only so it only needs a hot and a neutral. There are no speed options and you can't reverse it. I'm guessing Red is hot and black is neutral (common) I don't remember ever seeing a 115 single phase motor with wires like that. 

[JoeM 7,608]

Anything on the back of cover?

[formariz 11,849]

3 minutes ago, JoeM said:

Anything on the back of cover?

No cover!

[JoeM 7,608]

1 minute ago, formariz said:

No cover!

Oh, motor have external capacitor?

[formariz 11,849]

2 minutes ago, JoeM said:

Oh, motor have external capacitor?

It does not.

[JoeM 7,608]

I am thinking that has some thing to do with it. I am with Mike it is an odd one. I suppose you ask mr goggle?

[formariz 11,849]

1 minute ago, JoeM said:

I am thinking that has some thing to do with it. I am with Mike it is an odd one. I suppose you ask mr goggle?

Yeahp been looking all over and nothing about wiring .

[JoeM 7,608]

found this may be reversible

Edited December 2, 2020 by JoeM

[JoeM 7,608]

might be worth a call to Dayton, still in business.

[formariz 11,849]

9 minutes ago, JoeM said:

found this may be reversible

Saw this one before. May give it a try to see what happens

[Pullstart 59,543]

You should be able to measure resistance through at least two wires, if not more.  Make a list (1,2,5 and 8) and see what has resistance to each other.  See if there are any continuity paths to ground, see if anything leads back to a plug?

[WHX?? 46,687]

Guaranteed the wiring was on the back of the cover. Be carefull or you'll let the smoke out. I think Joe is on to something. 

@Racinbob any help on this??? Ain't  you a Grainger/Dayton fan?

Hey wait a minute how did you know it was a Dayton motor Joe? 

Edited December 2, 2020 by WHX24

[squonk 38,844]

It's possible one set of leads is for a start winding and the other are the run windings. Is there a centrifugal switch in the motor?. I've run across some convection ovens with motors with weird wiring with those internal switches.

[WHX?? 46,687]

That would be weird Mike ... switch would mean a start cap? 

[formariz 11,849]

This is a motor from an inexpensive delta bench top drill press.

[WHX?? 46,687]

We can't finger it out Cas I got a bro who prolly has the same ... I can run over and check.  Don't wanna see ya let the smoke out.  

[formariz 11,849]

3 minutes ago, WHX24 said:

We can't finger it out Cas I got a bro who prolly has the same ... I can run over and check.  Don't wanna see ya let the smoke out.  

Thanks .It was a Delta11-950 8" drill press.

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 10,478]

Found the 1310050 motor but the wiring is different.

https://www.mikestools.com/download/Delta-Parts-Lists/11-980-10-Inch-Drill-Press-DP1C.pdf

 

Garry

[formariz 11,849]

10 minutes ago, gwest_ca said:

Found the 1310050 motor but the wiring is different.

https://www.mikestools.com/download/Delta-Parts-Lists/11-980-10-Inch-Drill-Press-DP1C.pdf

 

Garry

This is a much earlier motor, 1987 probably why.

[formariz 11,849]

 

2 hours ago, pullstart said:

You should be able to measure resistance through at least two wires, if not more.  Make a list (1,2,5 and 8) and see what has resistance to each other.  See if there are any continuity paths to ground, see if anything leads back to a plug?

Did a little testing. Resistance between two black wires 2.7  Resistance between 2 red wires 5.0. No resistance between any other combination.

[formariz 11,849]

GOT IT.

Its a repulsion motor. Two winding's one with the black wires one with the red wires. One wire from each winding goes to each line.

Reverse wires and rotation is reversed.Surprised they still used them for this application in 1987. The others I have are at least 70 years old.

Edited December 2, 2020 by formariz

[squonk 38,844]

8 hours ago, WHX24 said:

That would be weird Mike ... switch would mean a start cap? 

No. The centrifugal switch drops out a start winding after the motor reaches a certain speed in most cases. If it hangs up you end up burning a start winding. In the case of the convection ovens, The switch drops out the start winding but also sends a signal to the ignition control to let it know the fan is running and it's ok to light the oven. When the doors are opened, a door switch turns off the fan. When the switch  opens, the burners go out. 

 

I've heard of repulsion start motors but never run into one.

The repulsion-induction motor starts on one principle of operation and, when almost up to speed, changes over to another type of operation. Very high twisting forces are produced during starting by the repulsion between the magnetic pole in the armature and the same kind of pole in the adjacent stator field winding

 

Edited December 2, 2020 by squonk

[Racinbob 10,256]

12 hours ago, WHX24 said:

Guaranteed the wiring was on the back of the cover. Be carefull or you'll let the smoke out. I think Joe is on to something. 

@Racinbob any help on this??? Ain't  you a Grainger/Dayton fan?

Hey wait a minute how did you know it was a Dayton motor Joe? 

 

That's a Delta, not Dayton but that doesn't matter when it comes to wiring. I suppose it's possible that Deltas and Daytons are made by the same place in Taiwan. The best thing I learned after over 45 years of electrical experience is to avoid giving virtual advice unless the answer is crystal clear. Even then I often won't. Too many opportunities for something to go wrong. Something seems screwy here and I don't want to sling more..............................opinions at the wall hoping something will stick. Deltas customer service is usually pretty good. 

[formariz 11,849]

6 hours ago, squonk said:

No. The centrifugal switch drops out a start winding after the motor reaches a certain speed in most cases. If it hangs up you end up burning a start winding. In the case of the convection ovens, The switch drops out the start winding but also sends a signal to the ignition control to let it know the fan is running and it's ok to light the oven. When the doors are opened, a door switch turns off the fan. When the switch  opens, the burners go out. 

 

I've heard of repulsion start motors but never run into one.

The repulsion-induction motor starts on one principle of operation and, when almost up to speed, changes over to another type of operation. Very high twisting forces are produced during starting by the repulsion between the magnetic pole in the armature and the same kind of pole in the adjacent stator field winding

 

Not only I am surprised but actually feel a little foolish about this. I am actually familiar with these motors since I have quite a few of them in service here. They all are however at least over 70 years old. None of them have colored wires, rather cloth covered wires and none of them have numbered wires. They all are 6 or 9 wires since they have also reversing switches mounted. I wasn't expecting it to be this type since it is from 1987 and the 4 wires threw me for a loop since all others have more. I believe that the R in the serial # is the giveaway since all others will also have an R in their serial #s. I did find information stating that as a replacement part this motor became obsolete a few years after manufacture being replaced by capacitor induction motor which is also depicted in parts list. I should have examined it a little closer since one can just about see the brushes and switch through some of the armature holes. Anyway, thank you all for the help and it is already up and running.