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hucksterfool

d180 wont move

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daveoman1966

I think you'll find that the INTERNAL COMPONENTS of the D series Pump and Motor (separated system) are the same as the INTERNALS of the C series (piston-to-piston).  Some of the outer linkages and controls are different, as noted by pfrederi.   

Looking at the Hydro MOTOR....  this little clip MAY have broken (I have them if needed)...or...as others suggested...MAYBE a spring in the pistons CYLINDER BLOCK.  

 

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hucksterfool

Interesting enough this pump has controls on both sides. 

image.jpg

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pfrederi

Interesting , have never seen that.  Might be easily notifiable to fit your D.  Still would look first at your hydro motor

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hucksterfool

I will, finding the time to finish getting it disconnected to lines. Only thing left. 

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hucksterfool

It’s out. Here Re the photos. 

C76A2D81-2E20-4D45-ABCC-61212C4C1733.jpeg

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hucksterfool

Based on the photos, is this pump salvageable? 

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pfrederi

Those slippers and valve plate are in pretty bad shape.  What is the white stuff on the valve plate???  The wear and grooving are not good but they would not explain the sudden failure. Have you ever used the tractor for an extended period mowing or something that would get her real warmed up?  Did the temp gauge go way up?  If the tractor operated well enough for what ever you used it for before the sudden break I might try polishing the slippers and buy an new valve plate...but not until you also open the hydro motor.  Have got to find the cause of the sudden traumatic failure.

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Sarge

The biggest wear item is those slippers and that brass plate - if they are grooved too deeply from debris there is little error left to keep them in spec if you polish them enough to make them smooth. I think the limit is within .005"-.010" shorter than stock length. Once you start resurfacing those piston slippers and the block face you start losing preload - lose too much and the thing cannot build pressure. There are some threads around here about using late model Sundstrand pumps with the dual direction control shafts on them from the later C series. There are also repairs that have/can be done using the C series pulley that has the welded-in center splined hub drive pulley to repair the coupling problem associated with the D series divorced setup - done that one myself and also added a key to the shaft. The dual shaft C pump should work fine in a D, but I believe the one post I found about swapping that particular pump into the D required cutting part of the left side shaft off for clearance.

 

There are a lot of somewhat hidden threads on this site that deal with the Sundstrand's inner parts and how they can be repaired/replaced to fix issues. Some parts are compatible enough to allow certain sections to be swapped between tractor/pump/motor models off of different years/series. Finding those threads is not easy and I suggest you bookmark any you find with relative information if you own a D series other than the Gutbrod D-250. Your D-180, 18 Auto is all the same as most of the C series and other D model tractors. 

 

Here are a few threads I've used to find more information and pictures associated with what you're working on - keep in mind that thanks to Photobucket being so greedy, many pictures in these threads are long gone.

 

https://www.wheelhorseforum.com/topic/32936-rebuilding-a-hydro-pump-from-a-d/#comment-283485

 

Good info on the D -

https://www.wheelhorseforum.com/topic/39298-d-series-questions/?page=2

 

Great thread -

https://www.wheelhorseforum.com/topic/37218-c-161-wsundstrand-wont-move/?page=1

 

This is the mother of all threads with the most info I've found -

 

https://www.wheelhorseforum.com/topic/67317-c-160-hydro-issues/  > I suggest you read this one several times before getting very far into that unit, then read it again. Pay close attention to part orientation as well as proper measurement of all the parts - there are limits to what you can do here before having to buy new replacements.

 

Our resident parts buddy @daveoman1966 has uploaded some of the best photos we have, along with highlighted descriptions of what to look for - dig through all of his related Sundstrand posts, it is highly worth your time.

 

Sarge

 

 

Edited by Sarge
missed detail
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daveoman1966

I've looked at your pics...IMHO, I'd try to resurface the BRASS faces of slippers and the valve plate.  I've seen worse...Look at the GEROTOR set under the Charge Pump Housing. Surely it is scarred too, but it can also be refinished.  The valve plate MAY be salvageable.  Here are a few pics of what you want to achieve.  Get some 220, 400, 600 and 1000 grit 8x11 sheets of sandpaper and a FLAT surface...like a sheet of glass or a marble surface plate.  Tape the paper to the plate and progressively ..in a figure 8 pattern....sand off the faces of the pistons...one by one...until each is smooth again.  Do the same with that valve plate, and the base of the piston cylinder block ...

Sure wish I had your email address....  I don't want to fill up too much space on this forum with lots of pics. 

So, what is your email & I will post more pics directly to you....   

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Edited by daveoman1966
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daveoman1966

Regarding the post from SARGE about wear limits to maintain PRE-LOAD pressure.  He is absolutely right....

To compensate for material lost in resurfacing the piston slippers AND the valve plate, cut a pop-can open...flatten it out.  Lay the THRUST WASHER on the thin aluminum pop-can and make a SHIM...exactly the dimension and shape of the thrust washer.  When you reassemble the unit, place this shim BEHIND the thrust washer.  This will compensate for material loss in refinishing and be completely out of harms way since it is BEHIND the thrust washer.  ps...make the shim slightly under-size of the thrust washer so it will fit completely hidden.  ps...you can also use .005 or .010 steel shim stock ...but the pop can trick works just the same.   

Edited by daveoman1966
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daveoman1966

A few minutes ago, I suggested to cut a SHIM from and pop can.  Realizing that a beer can may be more readily available to some members.... Bud Light or Coors would be suitable. 

  

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hucksterfool

Just wanted to say thanks to everyone. I ended  up putting in the used pump I got. I did take apart and check it. Looked real good. Tractor all back togeather for the most part. And it moves!

 

part was from a c series. Auto.  It had motion splint on both sides.  It works great. 

FCA273CF-2DFF-473D-BB20-037688A466C6.jpeg

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Sarge

Great to hear, hope you cleaned out the motor as well as the trans case completely. Contamination is deadly to a hydro pump.

 

Nice D, btw...

 

Sarge

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hucksterfool

I did. Flushed with kerosine. As well changed trans oil and filter. 

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oliver2-44

@hucksterfool Thanks for posting your end results so we know what was the final solution.  Nice looking D and loader.

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hucksterfool

I am going to rebuild old d pump. So I have a spare. I’ll use all of your input in rebuilding. 

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