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Jason B

Can you help ID this wheel horse?

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Jason B
On 1/9/2019 at 10:58 AM, stevasaurus said:

Here is a thread that has everything you want to know about a HY-2 and lots of pictures.  You have to read the whole thread...The pictures start on page 2.  :occasion-xmas:  Lowell may have the re-build kits now...or @Lane Ranger 

 

 

Thanks! That's awesome information! Hmm... can't seem to tag Lane Ranger. If you see this, do you have any rebuild kits? I don't think I need a spring. This one seems to return to center just fine. 

 

Edited by Jason B

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Jason B
15 hours ago, 953 nut said:

:text-yeahthat:

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Tried with this one. While it is not pitted, there is almost all surface rust left. under the seat (toolbox area?) is pretty bad. Not rusted through anywhere, but I will have to treat with rust converter and fill it before painting. 

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Jason B

Got the flywheel pulled... here's the carnage. Anybody know where I can source a magneto for one of these engines? HT55C-3089.

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Edited by Jason B
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wallfish

That's one of the charging coils. Your "magneto' for the spark is the black one.

Might as well check and clean the points under that cover while you're in there.

 

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stevasaurus

I tagged Lane in my post on the 1st page...he came in, but he did not say anything about having the seals yet.  :handgestures-thumbupright:  I do not have any thing for the HY-2...I got all my stuff from IndyWH and he has not been on here in quite a while.  He does do Face Book though..."Wheel Horse Junkies".

If the lever returns...your spring is good.

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Jason B
30 minutes ago, wallfish said:

That's one of the charging coils. Your "magneto' for the spark is the black one.

Might as well check and clean the points under that cover while you're in there.

 

Wallfish, Thanks! Any idea where to source one? I have been looking for hours and come up empty handed. I thought I read that a few H60 parts will translate over. Does anyone know if the charging coils will? Thew harness is missing some insulation and the plug wire is pretty crusty - In a perfect world I would like to just buy a replacement for the whole thing as opposed to try and refurb this one. It's obvious which one lost its smoke, but that's not to say the other one is not missing some lacquer off the coil. Thanks!

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wallfish
57 minutes ago, Jason B said:

Wallfish, Thanks! Any idea where to source one? I have been looking for hours and come up empty handed. I thought I read that a few H60 parts will translate over. Does anyone know if the charging coils will?

I'll take a look at some engines around here. Yes, I believe the H60 parts should interchange. Maybe @formariz will have a source

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WHX??
On ‎1‎/‎9‎/‎2019 at 8:56 AM, Jason B said:

hydraulics are one of the main reasons we went with this particular one

If it didn't have the HY that would have been a deal breaker !?!? :lol:

 

On ‎1‎/‎9‎/‎2019 at 8:56 AM, Jason B said:

do not have the U-bolt to go around the axle for the ram mount.

I have one but don't really want to part with it in case another HY falls from the sky. I can get you some more pics to make one out of a regular axle mount which are plenty. Should be easy to make.

 

If you have the HY apart I would take a close look at the spring. They are a pain to change later.

 

I might be off my rocker here but any chance the charge coil could be re-wound???

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Edited by WHX21

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wallfish
47 minutes ago, WHX21 said:

 

I might be off my rocker here but any chance the charge coil could be re-wound

Just in general or for asking that question? :ychain:

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wallfish

Found this but not sure how good those coils are. Maybe one of them is good? Wires look green and loose on the left one.  Don't have any Teccy engines around with a charging system.

Cas, is there a way to test these charging coils to see if they're good? @formariz

If they're good, you can have it @Jason B. Just promise you'll try and get that engine running and post some pics if you do.

Just be careful if changing that whole assembly, timing those engines right can be difficult and may require special tools.

IMG_0222.JPG.1ce6f41713df0bf61da47f39306fbf80.JPG

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formariz

@wallfish@Jason BWe are dealing with hen's teeth here. That is why it is so important to become familiar with the electrical  workings of this engine prior to attempting to work on it. Parts are extremely hard to find. I am not aware of a way to check those generating coils unless they are on engine and is on. (Where the heck is that "squirrel" guy?). Here is what you need. Don't wait too long!!

 

Generating coils---------Not the correct # but I used them in the past on a H60 and they worked! Remove yours and check wires against it.Perhaps you can ask vendor for dimensions of coils and shaft dimension.I remember them being a little sloppy on lamination's even with the spring. I made an additional shim out of vinyl.       https://www.ebay.com/itm/Tecumseh-Generating-Coil-Part-29558-NOS-NLA/233041357580

Ignition coil------Correct part---https://www.ebay.com/itm/WICO-12915-5-5033-COIL-FITS-LAUSON-ENGINES-28259-NEW-OLD-STOCK/262862626885

In addition below is some more information on this system.If you need diodes I have spares.

Diodes-rectifier panel.pdf

2102363159_3AMPDCAlternatorSystem.jpg.72ec0678e918afb1d3dbfdf2c5379cca.jpg

701277252_WicoMagneto.jpg.ed3009b9abbc01c260d796f682072f9f.jpg

737340170_Rectifierpanel.jpg.f30a0629b472b5a821574dbedc08a828.jpg

942149794_lausonservicebulletin69page4.jpg.5daae9e8b60d8b5c80e8acc94854f308.jpg

 

Edited by formariz
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Jason B

@formariz You are a LIFE SAVER! All of that information is exactly what I have been looking for and couldn't find. I owe you a beer or three. I purchased both the generating coils and the ignition coil. The ignition coil says its for a Wico, but I have the Phelon. I assume a coil is a coil. The connections are different (my coil has two wires while this one has three, but only two connections). On my coil, one runs to the points and the other grounds to the stator plate at the condenser mount. Am I correct in assuming that the slotted connector with two laquered wires goes to the points, and the closed connector with green insulated wire goes to the stator plate ground? Also, the connections on my generating coils are different, but I am sure I can work it out. Just follow the path... 

@wallfish Sold! How do you want me to pay for shipping? Got paypal? 

 

I had no idea how rare parts for this engine are when I started twisting knobs and pushing buttons. I will make absolutely sure everything is in its correct place before attempting to fire it again. The family we bought this tractor from had a storage unit full of small engines - I would guess 50 or more. I may need to go back and see if he has any HT55C parts, or a spare engine. We also picked up a 1939 Maytag Model E wringer washer in very good shape ($40), a 1936 Shaw Du-All Pep-P Pal in very good condition with 4 pairs of implement mounts, scarifiers, and harrow disks, and a spare engine (for $50 ?!?), 3 sickle mowers (two for a Gibson and one for the Shaw Du-All), a spare Wisconsin engine for the Gibson ($50), a fuller 5" vise hard mounted to a semi wheel ($20), a bench grinder hard mounted to an old scottsdale wheel ($20), a set of oxy acetylene regulators, hoses, and torch ($10).  Sorry for the rambling and extra pics - rusty iron gets me all excited. 

 

I picked up some Rustoleum Gloss Apple Red paint while I was at the gettin' place earlier. I sandblasted and painted the hydraulic ram yesterday with what little I had left of that paint and it looks pretty close to Toro's prescribed Apple Red for the 552. Opinions? What do you guys use?

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Jason B

@WHX21 Thanks for the pics! There is another mount leg that kicks to the rear of the axle - I don't have that. I am sure I could make it if I had some measurements. What does it bolt to? The HY2 missing would not have been a deal breaker. It's just a huge perk to this particular tractor. They had other tractors we were looking at buying, but the 552 was the most complete. Dad just happened to notice the HY-2 pump/cylinder and mower deck in other pictures before we went and talked the guy into throwing them into the deal. 

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wallfish

@Jason B Do you want to wait and see what your new purchased coils do first? Don't want to send'm if you don't need'm so it can be offered to another if they need something from it. But, I did offer so if you do want/need it just PM me your address

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Pullstart
10 hours ago, formariz said:

@wallfish@Jason BWe are dealing with hen's teeth here. That is why it is so important to become familiar with the electrical  workings of this engine prior to attempting to work on it. Parts are extremely hard to find. I am not aware of a way to check those generating coils unless they are on engine and is on. (Where the heck is that "squirrel" guy?). Here is what you need. Don't wait too long!!

 

Generating coils---------Not the correct # but I used them in the past on a H60 and they worked! Remove yours and check wires against it.Perhaps you can ask vendor for dimensions of coils and shaft dimension.I remember them being a little sloppy on lamination's even with the spring. I made an additional shim out of vinyl.       https://www.ebay.com/itm/Tecumseh-Generating-Coil-Part-29558-NOS-NLA/233041357580

Ignition coil------Correct part---https://www.ebay.com/itm/WICO-12915-5-5033-COIL-FITS-LAUSON-ENGINES-28259-NEW-OLD-STOCK/262862626885

In addition below is some more information on this system.If you need diodes I have spares.

Diodes-rectifier panel.pdf

2102363159_3AMPDCAlternatorSystem.jpg.72ec0678e918afb1d3dbfdf2c5379cca.jpg

701277252_WicoMagneto.jpg.ed3009b9abbc01c260d796f682072f9f.jpg

737340170_Rectifierpanel.jpg.f30a0629b472b5a821574dbedc08a828.jpg

942149794_lausonservicebulletin69page4.jpg.5daae9e8b60d8b5c80e8acc94854f308.jpg

 

 

I just took snapshots of this whole post, just in case the Tecky in the 656 ever decides to hate me.  :text-goodpost:

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formariz
6 hours ago, Jason B said:

@formariz You are a LIFE SAVER! All of that information is exactly what I have been looking for and couldn't find. I owe you a beer or three. I purchased both the generating coils and the ignition coil. The ignition coil says its for a Wico, but I have the Phelon. I assume a coil is a coil. The connections are different (my coil has two wires while this one has three, but only two connections). On my coil, one runs to the points and the other grounds to the stator plate at the condenser mount. Am I correct in assuming that the slotted connector with two laquered wires goes to the points, and the closed connector with green insulated wire goes to the stator plate ground? Also, the connections on my generating coils are different, but I am sure I can work it out. Just follow the path... 

Keep the whole thing together for now until you get the new parts. Just remove it from engine and show me photos of both side how wires are connected.I want to compare it with others I have here. The Phelon is usually on later engines such as a h60. It may have been changed.

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Jason B

@wallfish Good call - keep it for someone else. I think the path formariz has me on will work. Parts will be here in a week or so. We'll see how it goes. I saw a post early on where someone gave advice to snap up Tecumseh parts when they find them. At the time I dismissed it, but I think I am going to adopt that mindset. 

 

@formariz I have attached pics of both sides and some close ups of the generating coils and stator frame delamination. I have slid the ignition coil off its post in preparation of the new coil. Man, that sucker was on there! the end lamination had been separated on purpose to "keep" the ignition coil on its post. From the pics I saw of the ebay offering you sent me, the new ignition coil comes with a tension spring. I don't see how I will fit it in there unless the center hole is bigger. I'll figure it out when it gets here. The laminations are not "laminated" very well. I'm not real well versed in small engine ignition, but I'm learning quickly. Am I correct in assuming that they just need to be separated from each other? Doesn't matter if they're delaminating? I had planned on cleaning up the surface rust on the stator frame, but I don't want to ruin yet another part. Guidance would be very much appreciated. Also, contact has obviously been made between the stator coil and the inside face of the flywheel. There are clean grind marks on all stator frame posts as well as the inside face of the flywheel. That's not going to cause any problems is it? I know on the newer engines you are supposed to set the coil the thickness of a piece of paper away from the flywheel - how do you do that when its mounted inside the flywheel? Trial and error?

 

You guys are more helpful and knowledgeable than any other forum I have been part of. This is a wealth of expertise - I could not have asked for more. Thanks for all the help! I hope to pay it forward sometime soon. 

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WHX??
12 hours ago, Jason B said:

another mount leg that kicks to the rear of the axle - I don't have that.

I'll pull the whole thing down off a shelf and take some pics. I think you are just missing the wrap around piece to the other side axle. We have plenty of those around. I though you were missing the piece that is already attached to your cylinder. You could  easily make them with what I see you have floating around your shop.

BTW nice score on the vise and other stuff! :handgestures-thumbupright:

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formariz
2 hours ago, Jason B said:

@wallfish Good call - keep it for someone else. I think the path formariz has me on will work. Parts will be here in a week or so. We'll see how it goes. I saw a post early on where someone gave advice to snap up Tecumseh parts when they find them. At the time I dismissed it, but I think I am going to adopt that mindset. 

 

@formariz I have attached pics of both sides and some close ups of the generating coils and stator frame delamination. I have slid the ignition coil off its post in preparation of the new coil. Man, that sucker was on there! the end lamination had been separated on purpose to "keep" the ignition coil on its post. From the pics I saw of the ebay offering you sent me, the new ignition coil comes with a tension spring. I don't see how I will fit it in there unless the center hole is bigger. I'll figure it out when it gets here. The laminations are not "laminated" very well. I'm not real well versed in small engine ignition, but I'm learning quickly. Am I correct in assuming that they just need to be separated from each other? Doesn't matter if they're delaminating? I had planned on cleaning up the surface rust on the stator frame, but I don't want to ruin yet another part. Guidance would be very much appreciated. Also, contact has obviously been made between the stator coil and the inside face of the flywheel. There are clean grind marks on all stator frame posts as well as the inside face of the flywheel. That's not going to cause any problems is it? I know on the newer engines you are supposed to set the coil the thickness of a piece of paper away from the flywheel - how do you do that when its mounted inside the flywheel? Trial and error?

 

You guys are more helpful and knowledgeable than any other forum I have been part of. This is a wealth of expertise - I could not have asked for more. Thanks for all the help! I hope to pay it forward sometime soo

 

Tension spring should fit in there, but it is not always easy to do so and then sometimes it is too loose. You don't have to worry too much about the surface rust on stator. It is not going to affect how it works. Just clean the grime off of it. Sometimes when being too zealous with cleaning these old things one does more harm than good.Lamination's are fine, lots of them look like that. As for the contact marks on stator and flywheel i see that often. I think most of the times is metal stuff that gets attracted to magnets and creates contact. If it was a serious contact believe me you will know it. Just make sure when you put everything back together that flywheel is properly seated and tight. There should not be however contact with the ignition coil case. Make sure that it will be all the way in and that it is secure so it does not creep out.

If you are committed to that engine and I hope so, its a good time to replace also points and condenser. Get familiar with the setting of the timing on it , they are very sensitive to that. You will need to remove the head to do that properly and it is a good time then to clean it it and inspect the condition of the bore and valves. The presence and location of carbon or lack of it in certain areas will tell the condition of things such as the rings. Ill get you some information on the timing and correct points and condenser.

 

Last but not least you will pay for all the help you get by passing what you learn on to someone else. Knowledge is not our property nor it is meant to be hidden or kept. We are merely caretakers of it.It is our responsibility to use it, add to it and pass it on.

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wallfish
3 minutes ago, formariz said:

Last but not least you will pay for all the help you get by passing what you learn on to someone else. Knowledge is not our property nor it is meant to be hidden or kept. We are merely caretakers of it.It is our responsibility to use it, add to it and pass it on.

This should be our forum's motto! Well said.

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rjg854

:text-yeahthat:   :text-bravo:

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WHX??

Here's what the rest of the bracket looks like Jason. Let us know if you need the dims to fab one. The levers on the bottom are for capturing the cross rod for a plow or tiller and are not needed should you not need them. I have one less the bracket you already have I can send if you want.

 

I guess I didn't realize  you are one of our resident Techy experts Cas....I thought Paul F. and Squonk were the Tecumseh  Queens... my bad.

BTW Cas I have this HH60 that needs a complete over...never mind :ychain:

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Edited by WHX21
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formariz
3 hours ago, WHX21 said:

I guess I didn't realize  you are one of our resident Techy experts Cas....I thought Paul F. and Squonk were the Tecumseh  Queens... my bad. 

 

Thank you for the kind words but I am far from being an expert. I do know a little bit about them, particularly h55s  and here it is why. My first tractor was a 551, shortly after my son had acquired a 753 .The 551 was well worn and needed a lot of attention particularly in the engine department. Up to getting that tractor I really had no inclination or desire to work on or know about small engines . I just took my stuff to the repair shop. However, that little red tractor just created a spark in my already curious nature in wanting to know how things work. Little did I know at the time that this particular engine,really would not be the most conducive one for one to learn on.It was rare, unusual, not too well known, hard to find parts and hard to find information on. It became an obsession, I just would not give up on it. Believe me when I tell you that that little tractor changed my life. Things have never been the same. The harder it was to get it going the more determined I became. Success was just a matter of time . I still have it and it will never leave here. To say that it tough me a lot is an understatement. Besides the obvious, it taught me to have respect and appreciation for these old tractors and many other things like them form a time period when there was a certain pride and care for whatever it was one manufactured. 58 years later and it will mow an acre of lawn and plow snow in winter. You have to respect that.

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