Cub Cadet Original

[WVHillbilly520H 10,376]

@WHX14, @Achto, here's the offending culprits of Kohler K161 fuel tanks on the CC ORIGINAL, that keep breaking the solder around the fuel outlet bung, any tips on repair would be greatly appreciated, as well a couple pics of the original engines/tins and the tractor with few upgrades I'm planning with the repaint, besides the K181 with ring gear starter out of a Gravely, Jeff.

[ebinmaine 71,802]

I know next to nothing about brazing and I'm interested to see what the solution is here so I'm going to follow along

[WHNJ701 4,165]

there is one on ebay now for 49.99 with free shipping in great condition.

 

another idea is get rid of the outlet patch a piece in, rotate the the tank 180 and tap in in a new outlet on the other side

Edited March 11, 2018 by jabelman
additional

[ebinmaine 71,802]

Couple questions come to mind.

 

1. How long is the repair lasting? 

 

2. Are you literally soldering  (or brazing) and if so, is solder a structurally solid enough material to withstand the intensive long term vibrations? 

[cpete1 332]

VIBRATION.... Regardless of the patch you chose, you might think about putting some rubber line in between the tank and the fuel line. Maybe scratch the whole "fuel bowl thing" and put a inline filter in. The tank is small enough where the leak could be brazed lIke Eric is suggesting. If its welded (gas) you might have to make a reinforcement piece (like a washer) to get a purchase onto some good metal. But that hard line hookup is probably vibrating to all get out so its going to keep testing the fix.

 

Just went back and looked at the picture again, take the sediment bowl off, get a inline shutoff and get a new outlet bung welded into the tank. I'm thinking the weight of the bowl assembly combined with the shakes is causing the problem to revisit you.  

[squonk 43,334]

If there any "old pro" radiator guys in your area,they were masters at soldering new hose outlets on and reinforcing them. Another option.

[Sarge 3,464]

If it's a tin tank, silver brazing is probably the strongest you can do. Looks like the tank is pretty thin, properly fluxed the silver will have greater strength . It could be tig welded at low amps but has to be dead clean first.

 

Sarge

[WVHillbilly520H 10,376]

To answer some of the questions about the repairs the first time I had "fixed" was by a friend at work (30 year veteran tool maker/machinist/blacksmith) who cleaned up the area then "silver soldered" it, lasted about the mowing season before it broke loose, there is some hard lines but I did use clear flexible lines between the threaded joints (2cd and 3rd pics above) I do seem to like the idea of going 180° but there's a reinforcing plate built into the tank at the outlet and that would have to be addressed as well, many thanks for ideas, Jeff.

Edited March 11, 2018 by WVHillbilly520H

[RandyLittrell 3,894]

On 3/11/2018 at 6:49 AM, cpete1 said:

VIBRATION.... Regardless of the patch you chose, you might think about putting some rubber line in between the tank and the fuel line. Maybe scratch the whole "fuel bowl thing" and put a inline filter in. The tank is small enough where the leak could be brazed lIke Eric is suggesting. If its welded (gas) you might have to make a reinforcement piece (like a washer) to get a purchase onto some good metal. But that hard line hookup is probably vibrating to all get out so its going to keep testing the fix.

 

Just went back and looked at the picture again, take the sediment bowl off, get a inline shutoff and get a new outlet bung welded into the tank. I'm thinking the weight of the bowl assembly combined with the shakes is causing the problem to revisit you.  

 

 

No need to get rid of the fuel bowl, best design they ever had. The originals had a steel line that went from the bowl to the carb. Probably added to the strength of it. I think there is some contamination that is keep it from getting repaired right. Maybe it needs to be hot tanked or just find a used one in good shape. 

 

Here is my OCC, first year of production. My Dad and I redid this 12 or 13 years ago. 

 

 

 

[WVHillbilly520H 10,376]

8 minutes ago, RandyLittrell said:

 

 

No need to get rid of the fuel bowl, best design they ever had. The originals had a steel line that went from the bowl to the carb. Probably added to the strength of it. I think there is some contamination that is keep it from getting repaired right. Maybe it needs to be hot tanked or just find a used one in good shape. 

 

Here is my OCC, first year of production. My Dad and I redid this 12 or 13 years ago. 

 

 

 

Thank you that has been my plan on the sediment bowl, as much as I was wanting to keep near original as possible, as you see I've already went with a modernized bendix/ring gear starter K series from a 70s Gravely and the square cushioned seat, dad and redone this when I was around 11-12 years old nearly 35 years ago, here's a pic about a month after it was done with me driving it through a local antique parade, and a video of my 10 year son driving it not long after the engine swap, Jeff.

VIDEO0028.mp4

[RandyLittrell 3,894]

Thats great Jeff! Awesome that you and your Son are into it together!

 

I really enjoyed doing it with my Dad and he is gone now, so it and its sister will get passed down to my Son. Dad had 2 of them, I found them for him and we have the very next serial number. 14,882 and 14.883. 

 

These old tractors are just plain fun to own and a great way for kids to learn about mechanical things. You won't be using a new one in 50 years!

 

 

 

 

 

 

Randy

 

 

 

 

[cpete1 332]

5 hours ago, RandyLittrell said:

No need to get rid of the fuel bowl, best design they ever had. The originals had a steel line that went from the bowl to the carb. Probably added to the strength of it. I think there is some contamination that is keep it from getting repaired right. Maybe it needs to be hot tanked or just find a used one in good shape. 

 

Randy, your restoration looks excellent. My brother had one like that when they first came out. In regards to the fix for the fuel tank , the thought was, the tank has already be repaired a couple times, which can harden the nearby metal, if a weld breaks, its usually just off the weld. Fuel bowl screens aren't that fine as compared to paper filters, with todays gas, doesn't hurt to be on the safe side. We had fuel bowls on the farm tractors, always got a small gas bath when servicing them and the concern about losing the bowl gasket and the screen was always prevalent when in the middle of a hay field. Plus if it does get repaired again, there is the thought of having to tighten the bowl assembly another quarter or half turn to get the fuel outlet end aligned and tweeking the repair again. Plus the one that's on the tractor in the picture looks like the shut-off valve isn't in too good a shape. Ultimately Jeff will figure out what he needs to do. And this forum allows me to look at all the different fixes. Like I said at the top your tractor looks absolutely stellar, brought me back 50 years just looking at it. 

Edited March 19, 2018 by cpete1

[WHX?? 51,345]

Just saw this thread Jeff and don't think Dan has yet either. I would definitely not hard pipe the tank to fuel pump/carb.

On ‎3‎/‎11‎/‎2018 at 6:49 AM, cpete1 said:

some rubber line in between the tank and the fuel line

My thoughts too, The copper line might be putting too much stress on that somewhat delicate bowl & bung. I would try and clean it up  and re-solder. Brazing would be a last resort because of the much higher temps involved and not being able to get all of the old solder off. Same with tigging ... don't think you'd  get it clean. I have some high strength silver solder we use in refrigeration work that I could send you. Lose the compression fitting, comp fitgs should never be used for fuel lines. unless they use a rubber sleeve.

 Tom @Shynon recently repaired a tank bung maybe he can chime in as to how he did it.

[Shynon 7,476]

Small micro torch, and solder. Thats how tanks are put together also, 2 halves soldered together.

[Shynon 7,476]

I would clean and solder it again, then use a short pipe 1/8 ×1 with some thread tape, then put on your sediment bowl.

 

 

[RandyLittrell 3,894]

I like the look of the black grill and motor. I like things restored, but its a little boring if they are all the same! 

 

 

 

Randy

[WVHillbilly520H 10,376]

1 minute ago, RandyLittrell said:

I like the look of the black grill and motor. I like things restored, but its a little boring if they are all the same! 

 

 

 

Randy

Yeah that was my idea way back then as well as red wheel bolts, the straight pipe/stack was dad's but with the new engine a pepper shaker muffler calmed it down a bit, thanks Jeff.

[WVHillbilly520H 10,376]

@shallowwatersailor, thanks for the use of your trailer better than making 2 trips with my 5x8, anyways I've been taking my '95 520 to WV every couple weeks so I can I mow for mom and dad till I get these Cub Cadets figured out the original here when I swapped (free K181) engines smoked enough to foul the plug every mowing (as well as choke all the 'skeeters out) so I swapped in another but it won't stay running for more than 5 mins (fuel issue or coil/condenser ?) then the 1720 had a rodents nest in both banks of the engine burnt up the coil and the carb was leaking bad as well as an intermittent PTO switch, then the 1200 I believe has a leaking head gasket down on power , anyways while I have the original over here I'll get the engine sorted out then try to get it repainted and some new tires , they thick grass in the last picture is where the winter/spring pond is finally drying up after all the spring rains that ruined the driveway ,Jeff.

[DennisThornton 4,771]

Solder or braze if you can but solder should be fine IF you add a washer to beef up the area and spread out the stress.  Might consider the rubber grommets often used in fuel tank drains.