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Sarge

D series 3pt hose interference issue?

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I see where it was in Belleville, IL this morning early.  So hopefully today or tomorrow it should be to you.  We have never had a problem like this before and they have been easy to work with and like you, so glad it was found and not completely lost.  I will continue to check the status but please let us know when you receive it.  

 

Ron 

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I spoke with the Belleville office an hour ago - they do not physically have it unless it went out somehow with a route carrier. She has the origin info as well as destination and my phone number - if she can get her hands on it she will call.

 

My friends wife said they had to have put the wrong number on the package or something, or the label somehow got screwed up - there's no reason it shouldn't have went straight to the Peoria Distribution center and then up here to us in Ohio - it's really odd and has them baffled. Hard telling, at this point it could be off-shore for all we know. Right now, my local office , the Peoria Distribution center and Belleville are all hunting this thing, lol.

 

Btw, was it a box, padded envelope/parcel - what type of package - it may help. Was the address written directly on it , or one of their self-adhesive labels or did the clerk to it ? She had said at times window clerks have multiple packages they are working on and sometimes the customer is given one number but the actual package labels get switched - that is the most common culprit of lost items.

 

The thing is going to have 10,000 miles on it before it arrives - somewhere, lol.

 

Appreciate the help - at least it's some winter entertainment I guess. In the meantime, shed heater is on and the old hose is getting put on it for now - we have a major storm coming tonight through Saturday again.

 

Sarge

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07:17 02/09/2018 - hose still shown in Belleville Illinois . Will call again down there and see what the stamp is up - never received a call back yesterday from the supervisor, will post updates. I've got half the USPS personnel in the country looking for it - we assume it has the wrong tracking number on it or something, who knows at this point...so much for "better technology" .

 

I did put the old hose on yesterday , repaired an issue with the blade's rear quick attach locks wanting to randomly drop the blade off and cut a relief in the 3pt link to clear the hose's 90* end better. Took it out and plowed the rest of the areas I hadn't finished with the 16Auto. Even moved back the piles and banks in preparation for our winter storm warning , which evidently went well north instead - we didn't get much but maybe some seat time later today. Nice to use Big Ugly versus the smaller tractor, I love this big blade and how well it moves whatever gets in it's way, only spun the tires a couple of times on frozen banks - lift the blade some and push into it again - it breaks free and moves the stuff easily. I won't ram anything with this thing due to the rear differential and hydro coupling - don't want to open that can of worms again, lol.


Took my A frame off for now so it's weight is hanging off the chain for the top link - plus having that weight on there adds more load to that hose, making it leak a lot more oil. Lost a little traction with the 50lbs of steel missing, but it still plows fine without it and just using the cast iron 12" WH weights w/chains is good enough for now.

 

Almost wish we'd taken a direct hit from the heavier bands of snow - some folks are slated for 10" or more , I'm sure our turn will come soon enough.

 

Sarge

 

 

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Interesting update - pays to have friends in the right places...lol.

 

I have pictures of the package itself thanks to some serious help - owe her big for this one - per the pictures, Ron did not make one single mistake in how the address was clearly written, it had to be the window clerk.

 

It has now been re-routed out of Belleville, they did find it yesterday and it went out at 16:39 on the truck. It should now head to Hazelwood, then up here in the next few days. It appears from the photos that the tracking number/scan label is at the bottom edge of what appears to be a white envelope or box, but that label is wrapped around the edge a bit . She said that could cause the scanners to read it incorrectly and route it to the wrong area. Further scanner mistakes have caused the laps it's made around the Midwest - at the rate they process the volume they have to handle it's not surprising to her - no one really reads the labels individually - it takes far too long for the volume of items they process daily. Despite the electronic scanners, tracking/routing systems and insane network of offices, I'm surprised it doesn't happen more often - most folks would never believe the sheer volume of mail and packages the US Postal Service handles on a daily basis. Parts of it still run even on Sundays and Holidays and always, of course, regardless of the weather. So, it looks to be headed in the right direction now , thanks to the calls to the Belleville office yesterday. No one ever did call back as they said they would - I called again this morning with no feedback yet as they said they would, the friend had to get it done from her office. I just wish I had someone like that at UPS, as well as FedEx, lol...

 

Just an fyi from her - use their packages that are free, especially for Priority Mail . I send out a lot of parts back and forth with folks and many things go well over seas to other countries. She said when you use their packaging it is designed to work perfectly with their scanning system and makes it easier to process things, and far more accurately.  I've always gone through a lot of Priority Mail boxes as the rates are really good - it's far faster most times than UPS/FedEx and they rarely damage anything that is properly packed - the others could destroy an anvil or rubber mallet....that's been proven. Their supplies are free at the window , or - like I do , can be ordered bulk and sent to you directly, free of charge including shipping. Can't beat that with a stick, or Horse for that matter and it's the best kept secret for sending those 50lb cast iron wheel weights, cheap and in one piece per their 70lb limit and they will fit inside the large boxes very nicely, lol. My local clerk is not thrilled with those and I have to dig them out of the transport cage for her - at least they protect other stuff with those iron hernia makers on the bottom...

 

Btw, if you ask - they will give stacks of nicely made self-adhesive labels for both Priority and either Bulk or First Class packages . Pads of them are also available in bulk on the website as well as all the different boxes and envelopes. I have bundles of their boxes in the basement and pads of labels on the desk and in the shop, along with Priority steeekers in rolls. Our mail here is PO boxes only unless you go to the trouble to lobby them for a rural address and put up a proper mail box next to the road, small towns have their price besides the savings on taxes. So, I'm up there daily, or at least every few days to collect my mail - many times very late at night during work season - the clerks leave a key for one of the largest boxes that my stuff will fit into - sometimes several of them. Stuff that won't fit they leave a notice and I do have to get someone to go after it, but it works. UPS has left my stuff all over town, lost it and broken things I cannot replace nor could break in the first place - I really do prefer USPS any day and I'm not even upset about the hose. Just really curious how it happened and how to avoid it in the future since I use them personally so often. I thank Ron for his effort and especially his good faith deed of sending it in the first place without warning - that was a surprise for sure. I'll try to figure out a market value on the hose as well as the Postage cost - plus dinner. I love this place - it's folks like Ron that make it work so well and I try to pay it back as much as possible. Long-winded, yeah I know but it really does come from the heart - you folks are family to me , like it or not :text-imsorry:

 

I just hope to see it some day, at least it's not completely MIA or ended up in Elon Musk's Tesla glove box....headed through some asteroid belt from what I hear now. That, we just may see again some day in the future - after some laps around the Galaxy, of course. I can just picture some telescope operator or space traveling individual, some very distance day in the future, saying - "Hey, remember that car they sent into Space?"...:auto-car:

 

I'll post an update when the Eagle has Landed...

 

Sarge

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Sarge - I did find the one off the "D" I am parting out, so, if worse comes to worse ..............................................

 

 Ron

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No problem - as I said it's all on them and the scanning system's mistakes.

 

Current tracking shows it was in the St. Louis Distribution center very early this morning and left there shortly afterwards. If it's on the right path it should hit Peoria next - that will decide it's fate - hoping it doesn't take another weird hop in a direction it shouldn't be headed. The Belleville PM did warn to keep a close eye on it...like that helps as I'm not able to do much about it .

 

If it stays MIA much longer I'll just wait and get one from Lowell when he gets the ends for the steel flare half - his quality is second to none and it won't leak so easily at the swivel on the #5 ORB end of the hose , his are really heavy duty. For now I really don't have to use the 3pt and took the A frame off to get the weight off it , as long as I don't hit that other valve handle and put any more oil into that cylinder the leak has slowed to almost nothing, which is good. I almost hate that Mobil 1 oil - the stuff just won't wipe off anything but 3200psi will take care of that when it warms up, at least the ugly old bugger won't rust back there from the snow and salt that gets tracked into the areas I plow, lol.

 

Speaking of salt corrosion - for those that run chains and use theirs out in the streets or roads , how do you protect your sheet metal from the salt ? I noticed last time I checked the hydro oil on the 1277 the bottom side of the fenders were really getting pitted from the stuff - that tractor has been used all over town to plow snow and other places as well - it's not only got a lot of hours on it but also a lot of miles. Those ag tires and chains fling the stuff everywhere - have to keep an eye on the transmission fan for the hydro as it can get plugged up - had one shear the blades off already and they are hard to find.

 

Sarge

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According to what I read on USPS tracking this morning, it tells me the package was delivered.  Did you get it?  Please let us know.  Ron

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YES, THE EAGLE HAS LANDED !!!

 

I understand now what my buddy's wife at the Postal Service had said about how the clerk applied the tracking number sticker - wrapping it around the edge the way they did caused errors in the routing system and scanners - 3 times that we can figure. Not sure how, but evidently Belleville's office did something that changed it - the thing was in St. Louis over the weekend and was routed directly up here for this morning's sorting. I opened my box, let out a few expletives and could hear our local clerk laughing in the back room...she got a kick out of that and knew exactly who it was. She's seen the same thing happen before and remarked the original clerk in Pekin should have put the sticker somewhere else on the box or asked if the package could be put in one of their boxes instead for more room on the outside. Either way - it arrived and that's all that counts , very glad it wasn't lost since a NOS hose like this is a pretty rare animal for sure. You did go well above and beyond and none of this is your fault - it's all on them. Nice box, btw - someone could have ran it over with a truck and not damaged this thing , nor it's brass ends.

 

Again, can't thank you enough for this - I do need your email , if you don't mind - send me a pm or reply to the other one if you have it .

 

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Now, onto the original problem, and why I wanted this NOS hose instead of a used replacement - Lowell can make these but needs an absolute answer on what the taper on the male hard line end of the hose was fitted with originally from Wheel Horse . Getting the wrong taper will result in a bad leak and loss of hydraulic pressure - not the idea when dealing with lifting cylinders and due to how this cylinder is oriented in the D the hose must be made exactly like the original - there is literally no extra room in there. Not to mention, putting air through that old Sundstrand pump is rough on it's charge pump section and they get abused enough as it is by the engine and how the coupling was designed.

 

We had suspected it was the old standard 45* taper - turns out Wheel Horse was ahead of their time since in the mid-70's the only real industries using the newer style 37* taper were aircraft and heavy equipment builders and not all of them were using it yet . I had my suspicions since these things can withstand a lot of abuse and vibration - much like aircraft - the male hose end for the flared steel line fitting is indeed 37* JIC - not 45* SAE .

So....8-3/4" long hose overall (measured at the centerline of the ORB end to the tip of the flare end) with a #5 ORB 90* swivel fitting at one end , 37* JIC male flare (5/16" steel line) at the other end to replace the original 102174 hose - DONE !

 

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This info will be passed along to Lowell so he can start making these available. The hoses he's offering for our WH tractors are high quality and very well done at an amazingly reasonable cost for a small-biz guy - one of our best resources and I hope he stays at it forever....

 

For comparison - it's a bit tough to see in a photo, but in person there is no doubt about the angle.

 

45*....nope

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37*....dead on exact

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Like I said - it seemed to be 37* but was so hard to tell on a used hose due to the brass ends since the male taper deforms slightly after it's installed and tightened. Common with brass and can be a problem - even the local hydraulic shop warned of that issue and when the inspected the old original line they couldn't tell for sure, even with their gauges made for doing this stuff. Steel is easier to judge/gauge since it doesn't deform like brass. I've dealt with a ton of steel line equipped machines that use rubber flex lines at moving points, if things aren't done right it can cause the steel lines to crack - that can actually hurt someone at high pressures, it will cut through skin like butter when they let go. This system isn't a real high pressure, but you still don't want to have to replace that steel line if it isn't necessary - it's a pain in the butt to get in there.

 

I'm anal about this kind of stuff to a fault - but I want things right and leak-free as much as reasonably possible - happy to have this figured out since these hoses aren't available now and brass ends wear easily from vibration. The 5/16" male flare end is not that common (size-wise) and neither is the #5 ORB 90* swivel , most hydraulic shops will not stock those parts to make a new hose but we have our source here , thankfully.

 

Enough rambling and glad this is done.

 

NOW, FOR THE NEXT QUESTION  - my original front hose on the 3pt cylinder has been replaced by a previous owner - anyone have a picture of how the original line was routed and what ends it used ? @R. L. Addison @pfrederi - any other D folks ?

From the '75 D series parts drawings - it appears the front hose has straight ends both at the steel hard line and at the cylinder - should be a 37* JIC 5/16" male flare end X #5 ORB (5/16") SAE end at the cylinder, but no idea of the original length. This way , both could be made and available to replace the original brass-ended hoses for those that need them - another part no longer available from Toro - 102287 .

 

Thanks for everyone's help - especially Ron and Paul .

 

Sarge

 

 

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Just need a measurement and a photo - probably from tip to tip if both ends are straight. This way, Lowell could cover both hoses for the D and make it a stock item or at least have the specifications to make them.

 

How did you ever find a NOS hose, anyway ? It's just odd, I've never ran across one on the auction sites or otherwise...

 

Did the notice come in from PayPal ?

 

Sarge

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Best shot I can get of the front hose.  Easy ride seat is comfy but always in the way

 

 

 

 

 

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Edited by pfrederi
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Perfect, all we need is the length from tip to tip - then the info goes to Lowell. Not sure if he's lurking here or not , suspect he's been busy lately with winter boredom orders or broken stuff from winter/restorations. I assume from looking at yours as well as mine that the 5/16 steel line end is the same for both those hoses for the 3pt - had to get out the inspection mirrors to even get a semi-look see at the thing being up below the rim of the frame plates. I'm with everyone else, they had to have a jig holding the hydro pump and rear end in mid-air and then built the monster around that on the assembly line, wow.

 

Amazing how nice that seat rides, yet can create so much frustration at the same time. Mine is coming out in the spring and a large portion of that rear plate that eats your wrist when trying to check/fill the hydro oil is getting cut off - it's not necessary to be that large/heavy. It's much bigger than the spring seating area, so it can be relieved some easily - except removing/installing the dumb thing.

 

NOS hose goes on today - high of 40* or so and light winds. Had errands yesterday morning and spent the afternoon with our granddaughter and that shot the whole day but was damp and cold as heck anyway. Looks like the next few weeks we start the roller coaster ride for February weather here, that should finish off our roads pretty well, lol.

 

Sarge

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Got the hose installed, filled the hydro and got things bled out again. After running it a bit, let it sit to settle the oil and foam out from the charge pump/bleeding the cylinder and got the oil level close enough to work it a bit. Took some time and made a flap for the top of the blade to prevent all the snow from coming over it when pushing into the piles - works great. 3pt lift works much better now that it's not leaking - plan to eventually have Lowell build all new hoses for both cylinders - the modern steel swivel ends have a better track record of not leaking. The original ends have brass at the ORB end - they just wear out in the swivel itself and cause leaks with age. I need to replace the dumb temperature gauge on this thing badly - it's all over the place and erratic at best. Problem seems to be with sending units - most are too big to fit between the two hydraulic outlet ports for the lift's spool valves.

 

I believe that port is 1/4" pipe - anyone ?

 

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For whatever reason the lift seems stronger than ever and she pulled that trailer without a problem - 1,200lbs now with the new tongue and other work done last summer. Plowed off a bunch of slush and cleaned the snow back to the edge of the street around our block - at least whoever drives the plow these days they can now see where the street ends - no curbs in most of this little old burg..

Also cleaned up the rest of the parking lot where the trailer sat to allow better drainage - warm temps the last couple of days has started to seriously melt off the snow, everything out there is dripping, lol.

 

Need to clean off the Cruiser, charge it's battery and run it a bit - feel sorry for the old bugger just sitting there rotting. As soon as it warms up enough I'll replace the twin rear wheel cylinders on the driver's side, clean it out and get some pics - it's getting sold. Hoping it can go to someone that can afford a full restoration - this one is worth it.

 

Sarge

 

 

Sarge

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I tried a couple used WH Temp Gauges...none worked reliably.  Picked up a mechanical gauge but found the bub was too long to fit in eh pump head. Wound up with a cheap Sunpro electric.  Has worked for several years and seems to be consistent.  Wish it had the 270 degree sweep like my oil pressure but coldn't find one when I was working on her.. 

 

You can sort of make out eh sending unit.  Has a red wire black plastic connector

 

 

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Good deal . Seems many of the aftermarket gauges have senders with huge bulb elements or are just far too long - not a lot of room down there due to that bracket and those lines off the pump either. I can check the other pump with the buggered shaft and see what size the hole is - along with an idea of depth. I'm leaning towards the deluxe line of Stewart Warner gauges but wow those aren't cheap although they really look great for the vintage of the machine. I also want to add an oil pressure gauge and get rid of the ammeter in it - that thing is so erratic it's not funny . Trying to stay electric with sending units but the cost of those is at a much higher price than mechanical ones and I do prefer the longer sweep. Those are available from some brands but they double the money too. Biggest problem now is getting gauges that can withstand the vibrations and are waterproof - there's always marine grade ones but adding that word doesn't mean they will last and it comes with even more costs.

 

Sarge

 

 

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Hello,

    I would like to know if the re-manufactured hoses do become available from Lowell, please keep me in mind for a set then.:handgestures-thumbupright:

 

Oldman

 

 

 

Edited by Oldman
typo

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Send your email address as I have some photo's of hoses to send you and I cannot send them through Red Square.  My email is dunngawn@yahoo.com.  Ron

 

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Sent...

Measurements , I presume ?

 

Sarge

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