Skeeters65 45 #1 Posted September 14, 2016 Hey guys I recently bought a Suburban 400 basket case. Put it all together to make sure everything worked as it's supposed and it did. Now I am taking it all apart and going to restore it. Previous us said something about putting PB Blast in the transmission but I'm not sure. I pulled the drain plug last night and NOTHING came out. I decided to take the left side plate off to give it a look. As soon as I pulled the bottom bolts water started to come out of the bolt holes. In total I would say 4-6oz of water was in there. After getting the side plate off the oil that was in there was like a dark brown mud. So thick that it would not even pour out or the case when I tipped it to the side. I used a paint scraper and a bunch of rags to get as much as I could out. I am going to bring it to my buddies shop in the next couple days and thoroughly clean it in his parts washer. Do do you guys think the bearings are any good? I'm not really sure how to tell. I would. Rather not rebuild the entire transmission if I don't have to. The other issue is the transmission leaked out the axle shaft ends and I do want to fix that. I HATE leaks! Any input would be greatly appreciated. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stevasaurus 22,231 #2 Posted September 14, 2016 (edited) The seals for your transmission are only available from TORO. The word is they are not available anymore...and they run $18 or more apiece. Check with your TORO dealer 1st, they are #83-2840. If TORO does not have them, send a PM to @Jake Kuhn...he is selling the gaskets and bearings and seals for your trans. It may be possible that the bearings may be OK. After you get them clean you can tell by putting it on your finger and turning it. You can feel if it is bad. The closed bearings have a better chance of being OK. Here is a copy of the manual...you want section I. 492-4004.pdf (application/pdf Object) You need to pop off the old axle seals and check the axle movement with the side plate still on. You can look at the end and see the bronze bearing. If it looks thinner in some areas then in others, you should replace them also. See if the axles have any up and down and side to side movement. Clean it all up before you order any bearings and seals. Here is my thread...with videos...rebuilding the 5003 and 5010 transmissions if you have not already seen them. Please post some pictures. Skeeter...be careful taking off the side plates. The little nubbies on the casting for the bolts are real fragile and they can break off. Everything should clean up nicely in a gunk tank and then a 4" wire wheel. You could sand blast with the plastic pellets if you want. Edited September 14, 2016 by stevasaurus 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WHX?? 46,809 #3 Posted September 14, 2016 Figure on going through the whole tranny. There are lots of threads here on how to do it, this one comes to mind ...never mind I was just beaten to it! or this one what ya need me for when we got the Dino around! Thanks for saving me from typing what you just said! 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stevasaurus 22,231 #4 Posted September 14, 2016 Jim, that thread that you put up there is like the Holy Grail of the 3 piece transmissions. That was the combined effort of me, RacinBob, Lane Ranger and a few others. It is always good to have you around Jim. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
oliver2-44 8,852 #5 Posted September 14, 2016 Welcome to bringing a "basket case" back to life. ...there should be a song ...water in another old transmission! If it's any consolation, (misery loves company) I've also have a basket case suburban that I'm gradually acquiring parts for to restore. If it's going to be awhile before you get it to your friends parts washer set it in a tub (to catch leaks) and fit it with diesel to soak. It will make work in the parts washer a little faster. The inside of mine looked so bad I just took a pressure washer to it, then filled it with diesel. PS. These seem to make a production run of the seals ever year or ??. They were NLA for quite a while, then I found some through PartsTree a few months ago. there is also a good document pinned in the Transmission section that cross references bearing part numbers if your into ordering them from Motion Industries. (the Jake K route is certainly easier). 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WHX?? 46,809 #6 Posted September 14, 2016 14 minutes ago, oliver2-44 said: the Jake K route is certainly easier Got that right Ollie...saved me a bunch of hassle & time & gas money running around with different vendors....one check out , one box back in the mail and on with the project! 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stevasaurus 22,231 #7 Posted September 14, 2016 35 minutes ago, oliver2-44 said: Welcome to bringing a "basket case" back to life. ...there should be a song ...water in another old transmission! If it's any consolation, (misery loves company) I've also have a basket case suburban that I'm gradually acquiring parts for to restore. If it's going to be awhile before you get it to your friends parts washer set it in a tub (to catch leaks) and fit it with diesel to soak. It will make work in the parts washer a little faster. The inside of mine looked so bad I just took a pressure washer to it, then filled it with diesel. Jim G. that is a riot. there should be a song!! Did you ever get yours back together?? I think you did. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skeeters65 45 #8 Posted September 14, 2016 Hey guys, When I get to the parts cleaner can I clean the inside of the transmission with only the left side plate off or should I take the right side off and do a complete disassembly? Thanks Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WHX?? 46,809 #9 Posted September 14, 2016 Complete...only way to properly clean & inspect all components. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
oliver2-44 8,852 #10 Posted September 14, 2016 it it was that gunked up, it truly is best to disassemble and clean. You might get away with leaving the shift forks and reverses gear in if they move freely after going through the parts washer. @stevasaurus I' done a test dry assembly on mine for practice, but I've been waiting for a welder friend of mine to take the spare RJ brake side plate I have and move the brake band tab to become a suburban side plate. I should hurry him along but life has really gotten in the way of any significant tractor project work for several months now. 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Racinbob 10,293 #11 Posted September 21, 2016 @oliver2-44 What parts do you need for that 5010. I have a few extra parts and there's a chance I might have something you need. I can bring them with me Friday. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skeeters65 45 #12 Posted September 25, 2016 (edited) Hey guys, Well I got it to my buddies and took it completely apart and cleaned it thoroughly. It was nasty in there which only led to more nasty surprises. Most of the bearings either don't spin, fell apart or are just plain wore out!!! This surprised me because all gears seemed to drive and work correctly 2 weeks ago when I tested it. Glad I pulled it apart. Also a few of the gears have some extreme wear on them. Probably looking to replace at least 2 or 3 of them. Any idea where to find some? Rob you still got some? NOTHING IS EASY!!!! Edited September 25, 2016 by Skeeters65 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Racinbob 10,293 #13 Posted September 26, 2016 I'd suggest getting things cleaned up and determine the specific parts you need. Let us know and I may be able to help you and if not Jake likely could. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wallfish 15,934 #14 Posted September 26, 2016 And a few pics of those parts wouldn't hurt either. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stevasaurus 22,231 #15 Posted September 26, 2016 Pictures Skeeter...I may have some gears also. @Jake Kuhn is selling kits that contain all the bearings, seals and gaskets. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skeeters65 45 #16 Posted September 26, 2016 OH it is all cleaned up. I will take some pictures now and try to figure out how to post them. I plan to buy the rebuild kit from Jake once I figure out what I need for replacement gears. Thanks Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skeeters65 45 #17 Posted September 26, 2016 Wow posting pictures here is easier than any other forum I'm on. Here are the affected gears. Let me know now if you guys think I should replace them and if so anyone have good ones? Thanks 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stevasaurus 22,231 #18 Posted September 26, 2016 Your cluster gear is bad...replace that. If you are just going to ride this around the yard and at shows, your mushroom gear and differential are passable. If you can find a differential and compatible mushroom gear, I would replace them. The spider gears (from the picture) are good from what I can see. I have a cluster gear if @Racinbob and/or @Jake Kuhn do not want to break up a trans. I do not have a differential or a mushroom gear. BTW...you can knock that race off the top of the mushroom gear. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skeeters65 45 #19 Posted September 26, 2016 Do the differential and mushroom gear need to be matching from the same transmission? What negative effects will I have from keeping the mushroom and diff gear? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Racinbob 10,293 #20 Posted September 26, 2016 How do your axles look? Remember that you can flip them around just by drilling a new hole for the roll pin. I should have everything you need but let me verify tomorrow. I don't remember the diameter of the gears off the top of my head. I may be able to use a large flat rate box. Stay tuned. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Racinbob 10,293 #21 Posted September 26, 2016 I agree with Steve on the mushroom gear and differential but I would replace them if possible. They aren't going to get any better and will cause more wear on the opposing gears. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stevasaurus 22,231 #22 Posted September 26, 2016 Those 2 things will be the hard things to replace. The mushroom and the differential. Skeeter, it is the teeth on those 2 gears that have to match up...they made 2 different kinds. You can replace the differential only...or the mushroom gear only...as long as they are a match. Your mushroom gear is a 11/44 toothed gear...11 on the top and 44 on the bottom. I would have to go back through some of my post about this to tell you how many teeth you need on the differential...but you could count yours...that is what you need. To answer your question about the negative effects...it is about the slop you will have in the gears. Going forward should be OK, but you may notice the slop when you are going forward and then stop and go into reverse. Those gears will have some space between the teeth, and as long as you are just riding around...will be OK...I don't think those gears would last long moving snow with a blade. That is what I mean. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Racinbob 10,293 #23 Posted September 27, 2016 Here's what I have that would hep you out Skeeter. I also have a pair of axles that are pretty nice and could be used as is but if I were doing the transmission I would flip them. I suspect that your axles would be fine too. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skeeters65 45 #24 Posted September 27, 2016 Rob, THose look much better than mine. I will send you a PM. My outter axle shafts. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Racinbob 10,293 #25 Posted September 27, 2016 Kevin, as far as your axles go I'm sure there's some grooves where the bushing rides. Make a simple jig by cutting a V notch in a 2x4. Set it up in a drill press and use a small (1/8" or less) to make sure it's exactly centered. Clamp it in place and drill away. It's not hardened and drills easy. By flipping the axles you end up with the worn spot in the middle of nowhere and essentially you have a new axle. The axles I have may be a tad better but I would do the flip and drill thing to them as well. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites