Steering very stiff question

[Al C. 1,428]

I picked up an SK-486 about a year ago.  It is in great condition with about 1300 hours on the meter.  The only problem I have with it is that it's steering is very stiff.  It takes two hands and a good bit of effort.  Meanwhile, my 1067 steers like a feather with a single finger.  Is the difference related to the wider front tires and larger engine (heavier) on the 486, or is there likely something I can correct on the 486 to make the steering lighter?

[bds1984 1,480]

Well hopefully it isn't like a Citroen 2CV and needs the frame replaced when the steering begins to get stiff!  Anyways, my guess would be to grease the fittings and any point along the axle that moves as a starting point.  Increased effort could be from the wider tires (maybe even the type) and larger engine, but you also have a mower deck that could be weighing it down.  I'm not too familiar with the square hoods at all but do the steering systems have the same steering ratio?  BTW, that is a nice looking SK-486.

[Tankman 3,523]

Great looking SK-486.

 

I would jack up the front end and clean and grease the steering, all of it.

Never had a Horse needing the energy you note to turn the steering wheel.

 

Please do update this post, would like to know how you make out. The solution and your findings. Good luck.

[Racinbob 11,809]

 

Something isn't right. That beautiful SK should steer like the 1067.

[clip 185]

Check tire pressure, jack up the front and grease the spindles so grease can get evenly distributed, check toe-in and add a small amount (1/4") if necessary.

 

I've just gone through my steering, greasing all joints and I added some thrust bearings (McMaster 5909K33) and associated washers to the bottom of the spindles. Only required a little grinding/file work on the axle to refit the upper critter pin. Haven't had a chance to test it yet but I'm hoping this will make steering easier.

[Al C. 1,428]

Hmmmm ....   Thanks for the ideas.   I thoroughly greased it last Fall.  It did not help.  I will start taking things apart next week and let everyone know what I find.   BTW, the mechanism on the 486 is very nimble when the front end is off the ground.   So whatever the problem, it is compounded by weight.  

[slammer302 2,156]

I always start with taking the front end apart and cleaning all the old grease out and adding new and making sure we're the fan gear and steering gear are properly shimed. And also make sure the wheel alignment is correct this can make a big difference in steering stiffness. Also the weight of a 16 HP Kohler will make steering harder than the lower HP horses

[pacer 3,176]

Sounds very like one of two C-175's I had/have. Both at first steered like the proverbial 'tank'. Pretty quickly I observed that both appeared to have quite a bit of 'toe-out' with both having original fixed tie rods, which of course arent adjustable. I first rebuilt all the steering components (which was worn pretty badly with little to no improvement) Having previously made up tie rods using thread ends, I made up 4 them and installed and set about dialing in some toe in --- Well, ones steering improved greatly, and the other ... no changeWell long story shortened I have chased that hard steer problem till I was cross eyed with no results!!

 

I sold the hard steer one stressing to the new owner what I had done and he seemed satisfied with the tractor and bought it -- I had done a major rebuild on it and it was a pretty thing...

 

So, you might try getting/making a couple adjustable links.

[TDF5G 2,072]

I've never had a hard steering problem with a  so I can't offer much advice.  My dad mentioned to me a couple of weeks ago about his 314-8 steering a little hard, but I've not a chance to take a look at it.  My first thought would be that it may be shimmed in too far at the fan gear and steering wheel shaft. 

 

This a good thread, lot's of helpful info. 

Edited April 14, 2016 by TDF5G

[Pullstart 65,092]

Maybe pull the steering rods off and jack it up, moving each component separate to see what is binding?  As @Tankman mentioned, jacking it up will relieve weight from the components and allow grease to get all around the pins and bushings.

[Phatboy 565]

I would check and make sure the loft arm or the trunion that lifts the mower deck isnt hitting the fan gear for the steering,, if i put lift on opposite side of lift arm it hits the fan gear and makes very hard to turn,,, my giess is something is interfearing with fan gear,,,

[c-series don 9,541]

Al I would say that your steering problem can't be fixed and you should sell that beautiful machine to me!!! 

[ericj 1,579]

i had a tractor that steered worse than a overloaded Mack truck, i greased the fan gear and shot grease all over the fan gear for good measure and it did help, and after several times of greasing it steered good.

 

 

 

 

eric j

[cleat 7,123]

All of my  520 now have a thrust washer under the steering spindle that did not come with a thrust bearing.

If they come with a thrust bearing (swept axle 520's) then they get cleaned and regreased.

 

All steer easy. For non-reduction though I must say the 416 steers easier and it has not been upgraded yet.

 

You can just make out the teflon washers under the spindles. This makes a world of difference, I am sure a bronze thrust bearing would do the same thing.

 

 

Edited April 15, 2016 by cleat

[Al C. 1,428]

Thank you!  ...  everyone for the ideas and suggestions.   My wife and I are on a road trip.   Great traveling!!!   I will start taking things apart when we get home.  There are a lot of ideas here that I haven't tried yet, so I am optimistic.  Interestingly,  the steering wheel on the 1067 is two inches larger in diameter than the 486.  I'm guessing this probably makes the 1067 a little easier also.  There will be pics and results once I start taking things apart.  

[Kegler 68]

Looks like a calendar shot !  2 nice horses.   Since it is better with no load I would check the spindles, and even the tie rod ends, for ware and binding. Good luck.

 

[PaulC 342]

really is a very cool picture with very nice horses you have there. I did a similar upgrade to what Cleat did but i used needle bearing thrust bearings i got from mcmaster carr, 3/4" bore is whats needed. I installed them on 2 417's that were steering very hard and it improved them greatly, one more then the other and with no front mounted attachments its like it has power steering. i did have to grind the top of one or two of the axels to accommodate for the thickness of the thrust bearing but it was well worth the effort.

 

http://www.mcmaster.com/#standard-rolling-element-thrust-bearings/=11zufc2

 

there is the link to the page to give an idea of what i used.

[bds1984 1,480]

Not to get off topic Cleat, but what 80s Ford is hiding under the covers there?  Mustang, T-Bird, Cougar?  When I drove my 87 Cougar XR7 my freshmen year in college on the first day someone stole all of my center caps and I had to replace them with Mustang ones until I found the Cougar ones.... and now I have about a dozen Cougar ones just in case!

[WHX?? 50,973]

19 hours ago, c-series don said:

Al I would say that your steering problem can't be fixed and you should sell that beautiful machine to me!!! 

 

Yah the steering is going to tighten up on that 1067 too.... be right over to get it....

 

Good idea on the bearings Paul I always did it with bronze washers but would think those  would be even better.

 

@cleat How the heck do you keep your 520's that clean ...don't you ever work them??

The washers on the spindle shaft are just for slop...I run sealed bearings in this girl.

Edited April 15, 2016 by WHX61/3
spell

[cleat 7,123]

2 hours ago, bds1984 said:

Not to get off topic Cleat, but what 80s Ford is hiding under the covers there?  Mustang, T-Bird, Cougar?  When I drove my 87 Cougar XR7 my freshmen year in college on the first day someone stole all of my center caps and I had to replace them with Mustang ones until I found the Cougar ones.... and now I have about a dozen Cougar ones just in case!

That is my 1986 Mustang GT convertible with around 36,000 original miles. I only seem to get it out once or twice a year. Hopefully more this year.

1 hour ago, WHX61/3 said:

 

Yah the steering is going to tighten up on that 1067 too.... be right over to get it....

 

Good idea on the bearings Paul I always did it with bronze washers but would think those  would be even better.

 

@cleat How the heck do you keep your 520's that clean ...don't you ever work them??

The washers on the spindle shaft are just for slop...I run sealed bearings in this girl.

That pic was during the rebuild. Unfortunately that one has been at work all day today hauling brush so it likely is not as clean at the moment.

 

 

[JimD 3,345]

The "Stang" is a beauty. I'm sure you'll get to the bottom of the steering issue with all the suggestions given. I would also check for slop and binding where the steering shaft comes through the dash panel. I think there were some threads about repairs to this area for this very issue.

[Al C. 1,428]

Well, we are back from our road trip and yesterday I had a chance to do some work to lighten the steering on my 486.   I decided to start simple and test some probable causes before getting into the more complicated.  To start, I lifted the front end, took weight off the front wheels, cleaned and thoroughly lubed (without taking apart) all of the spindle and pivot joints.  They were pretty dirty but not dry.  I flushed them with WD-40 and then packed them with fresh grease.  Without weight, the wheels now swing side to side with a feather touch!  I thought I had solved it.   So I lowered the tractor and tried it out.  No improvement!  Before taking everything apart I decided to test reducing the traction/friction on the front turf tires.  I cut two, two inch diameter discs out of a two by four and put them under the front tires to simulate a narrower profile tire.  Sure enough there was a big improvement.  Then I looked up some of the technical data about the 486 and the 1067 that I am comparing it against.  Here is what I found:

                                           SK 486                  1067

Tractor Weight                         655                    597

Mower Deck                             200                       0

Total Weight                             855                   597

Steering Wheel Diameter           13                     15

Wheel Dimensions           16x6.5-8           16x5.5-8

Wheel Profile                            Flat                Round

 

Next, I am going to remove the spindles, add a washer, clean and grease them.  But I am beginning to think that the 486 steers harder because it is heavier, the tires have a much flatter footprint, and it has a smaller steering wheel than the 1067.  I'll let you know the results. 

[gawald 30]

I had a D180 that had been used hard before I got it.  The front steering system was in bad shape.  The vertical spindles that went into the front axle had thrust bearings to make steering easier.  There was a flat washer on the bottom of the spindle, a needle bearing assembly (looks like flat donut with cylindrical rollers in it), and a top flat steel washer next to the front axle.   My needle bearing assembly was destroyed with all the rollers missing.   Since I worked for the Torrington Company who made the bearings, I called the plant and was sent two needle thrust bearings and 4 washers directly from the plant.  Steering was great after that.  This was over 30 years ago but as I recall the spindles were 1" in diameter.  Loved my old D180 but sadly had to sell it when I moved.   Use of needle thrust bearing assemblies compensates for heavy weight.  The bronze bushing idea is good too, but a thrust bearing should give less steering friction.   PS: the steel washers are specials - thin and heat treated to make the raceways for the thrust bearing. 

[Tankman 3,523]

I purchase, and keep on hand, various diameter thrust washers.

I find the Teflon washers interesting. Going to stock some and try 'em out.

Might have to find a Vic Tanny's and start curling weights just in case the Horses decide they don't want to turn. Right now the Stallions are behaving. 

 

I get excellent service (fast) and thrust washers here:  http://qbcbearings.com/BuyRFQ/ThrustB_Washer_SL_SB_I.htm#

Edited April 24, 2016 by Tankman

[ronhatch 406]

Going to install my new thrust BALL bearings on my C-101 tomorrow. We''ll see how it helps

I thought that Teflon washers would work well too, but I would stack 2 of them together so they slide against each other rather then against the relatively ruff surface of the axle or spindle.

Edited April 23, 2016 by ronhatch