Is this the right tractor for my needs

[lodestonefarm 41]

Hi I'm new to the forums.  Don't yet own a Wheel Horse but was hoping for some input from this knowledgable community.  

 

I'm in NW PA and need a machine that can remove snow from my 1/4-mile long, up and down, gravel driveway.  I've come across a number of lawn/garden tractors for sale locally.  One that caught my attention is a Wheel Horse 211-5.  It comes with a one-stage snow blower and a mowing deck.  And it's very reasonably priced- if it's still available.  I like the idea of a lawn/garden tractor for this work since I can use it year round, rather than a dedicated snow blower that would sit most of the year. 

 

I did a bit of research here and it seems there are strong opinions on vertical vs horizontal engines on these machines.  

 

My first question is how can I tell the difference? 

 

Secondly, in your experience would this machine be up to the task?  I fear it might be over-matched for the snow removal duties.  

 

If you think this machine might be a good fit, what should I be looking for when I go look at it? 

 

And if this machine is not what you'd recommend, what would you recommend?  

 

We're just at the southern edge of the snow belt so although we get our share of snow it's nothing like further north or Buffalo area.   But it would certainly get used a couple dozen times a season if not more.  

 

Thanks in advance.  

Peter

 

 

[Racinbob 11,906]

I would pass on that one. It's really just a lawn tractor. There's so many options for you out there. I would just make sure you get a lawn and garden tractor. C series, 300,400,500 series and there's a ton of good choices prior to the C series. There probably will be a lot of replies here so just start taking in the info and doing some research here. You live in a great area to find what you need.

Edited January 23, 2015 by Racinbob

[Save Old Iron 1,571]

Peter,

 

a 211 is NOT a viable choice for maintenance of a 1300+ foot driveway in western NY.

 

If you did encounter heavy wet snow, you would need to have an additional plow attachment. The 200 series just does not have the weight or transaxle heft for long term use in that arena.

 

I am a 211-5 owner who lives near Albany. The 211 is a very comfortable tractor and a GREAT mower for smaller yards. My wife uses ours as her lawn cart puller.

Edited January 23, 2015 by Save Old Iron

[Deer Whisperer 66]

In 1977 I bought a C120 Hydro with sno-blower /mower/chains/wheel weights and it can still out do  my 2 newer wheel horses. Has a 12 horse motor that at her age she still purrs like a kitten. You will never go wrong with buying a wheel horse if you go to a larger series. I live in the  U.P of Michigan where we get tons of snow and she handles my 1200 foot drive with ease.

[scotty 252]

I agree if i was you i would look for somthing with a horizontal shaft (The pully is on the side of the motor instead of the bottom). It depends if you want to use a snowblower or snowblade. My personal favorite machine is a b-80 (opinions will differ). The biggest problem with that machine is that transmission will not be as strong as a unidrive. I still kick myself for buying a vertical shaft. A belt change on them looks miserable looks like it would be easier to flip it over to put on a new belt haha.

[slammer302 2,156]

A good C series would be great or a B-80 or B-100 I'm a big fan of the k181 so I would look for a B-80 if you wanted a tractor just for pushing snow a 856,857,or commando 8 would even work good

[bmsgaffer 2,052]

The easiest ones to find will probably be C series or 300, 400 series.

 

If you get serious snow, not much will beat a 520 with a 2 stage blower on it. That will probably be the most expensive option with the highest maintenance costs (2 stage blower gearboxes, twin cylinder Onan, hydro)

 

If you do a handful of snows (as you are saying) you could get by with any C series, 300, or 400 series with a single stage blower and a snow plow. (Never underestimate the need for a snow plow when the blower just isn't working).

 

I would go with a single cylinder Kohler for the reliability and low maintenance costs if you dont need the big 2 stage. Go for a twin cylinder Kohler or Onan for power/ego factor (i have one, I cant deny its mostly because its cool. Everything I need could be done with 14hp) and you arent afraid of putting a little money into maintenance.

 

Dont bother with the 516 or 518H tractors, the transmission isnt worth it.

 

So all that to say my highest recommendations are:

C160 if you like the older style,

C-145, C-165, 414, 416 (Kohler single) These should be cheap and reliable

416 (Onan twin), 417, 418, 520 if you want the biggest with a little ego factor (the twins do sound real nice)

 

The debate between Hydro and 8 speed is a long battle, but you cont go wrong either way, each has its strong point. Personal preference kind of thing.

 

All of the frames and basic components on all of those models are EXACTLY the same so really you are deciding between some body work and the engine.

 

Get wheel weights and chains.

[Ed Kennell 41,681]

      All good advice, but they all failed to warn you about the main problem you will encounter if you buy a Wheel Horse.

 

                                     It has been studied and proven, 99% of first time Wheel Horse buyers will contract the dreaded

 

                                                                                         WHA

 

                                                                                Welcome to the  

Edited January 23, 2015 by ekennell

[lodestonefarm 41]

I appreciate all the (quick) feed back.  The consensus is that it's not what I need for moving snow.  So the next question is, would this tractor, with a mowing deck and bagging kit be worth $350, for use in mowing duties and pulling a garden cart, if it were in decent shape?  

 

I've been doing the snow removal with a New Holland TC45 that has a FEL.  It's not so easy to maneuver, but it does work.  

 

Again, thanks for all the input.  You're clearly a dedicated, friendly, helpful, and knowledgeable group.  Thanks.

[Ed Kennell 41,681]

I would not pay $350 for any used vertical shaft lawn tractor. If you keep looking, I'm sure you could find a good C, 300, 400, Raider, Charger for the same price. All have horizontal shaft Kohlers and stronger rear drives.

[scotty 252]

Well i personally i wouldnt do it. Depending on the time of they year i could get a lot better of a deal on a machine capable of handling the work. No vertical shaft tractor is worth 350 used to me.

[bmsgaffer 2,052]

  Yep, what both of them said.

[JackC 617]

The more you can do with one machine the better unless you have the room for more and the time to maintain them.  I also believe bigger and more weight and horse power is better especially when it comes to blowing or plowing snow.  A tractor with horizontal shaft PTO with 14hp or more should do it but I personally would look for something with 16 to 17 ponies like a C-175, 417A, or a 416H.  Those will do about anything you ask them to do with room to spare. Once you get the WHA you will have one or more of each like I do.  Forget the vertical shaft PTO machines unless you just want one to mow grass or pull a cart.  Also the automatics / hydros are a litter easier for the wife and kids to use compared to the manuals.  You can go to the Picture Gallery and check them all out.  JMHO

[shallowwatersailor 3,214]

      All good advice, but they all failed to warn you about the main problem you will encounter if you buy a Wheel Horse.

 

                                     It has been studied and proven, 99% of first time Wheel Horse buyers will contract the dreaded

 

                                                                                         WHA

 

                                                                                Welcome to the  

After that comes: W.H.A.S. !!!!

[daveoman1966 3,839]

I am also in N?W PA... about 10 miles east of Meadville.  I have a choice of three (3) Wheelhorse tractors available, with 42" dozer blades to push the snow away.  520-H, C-121, and a 314-A. Contact me directly here: 

daveoman@windstream.net.

[Save Old Iron 1,571]

Why not find a quick attach plow for the TC45?

 

If my driveway were that long, I would drop the blower of my current garden tractor and put a blade on my JD850 CUT.

 

30 -40 year old garden tractors can have a nasty way of disappointing you when you least expect it.

[Retired Wrencher 5,748]

      I hope u enjoy this site like we do.

[Save Old Iron 1,571]

the other thought that ran thru my mind was time and fuel costs.

 

You would need to swipe 3 to 4 widths of a standard WH blower to open a path for a car or truck to navigate the driveway. That equates to over a mile in actual usage of the blower - and running the blower with a heavy snow in 1st or 2nd gear on the tractor, you are looking at ground speed averaging a little more than 1/2 mile per hour.

 

That's 2 hours of blowing time. Some folks like the "seat time". Me, I guess I worked that out when I was 3 years old in the sandbox. To me this is PIA type work and I wish to get it done as quickly and CHEAPLY as possible.

 

You can't go wrong with the diesel in the Holland.

A  6 - 7 foot plow will take you 2 runs, one down to the road and one back to the house. Your seat time drops to half and fuel costs decrease probably by a factor or 5 or more..

Edited January 24, 2015 by Save Old Iron

[boovuc 1,090]

A quick and dirty guide to modern Wheelhorse tractor models. (Quick and dirty and not fully detailed guys)!!!

 

Wheelhorse/Toro-Wheelhorse manufactured different models for varying degrees of work. Lets look at the more modern tractors from the mid-70's forward and this will give you an idea of what to look for Lodestoner!

 

The older C-Series tractors like the C-120 mentioned above was a garden tractor with a horizontal, (side-shaft) engine and the ability to match up to a lot of implements that WH made for them. The D Series Tractor was a much bigger garden tractor. The A series tractors were smaller light weight tractors designed for mostly mowing. (B-series were a mix of both with some being garden tractors and some being lawn tractors.

 

When Toro bought wheelhorse, the models changed. The 100 series series machines were rear engine little guys that mowed only. The 200 series tractor like you were looking at were vertical, (Bottom-shaft) engine equipped tractors that were meant for small yard mowing and very light duty work. The 300, 400 & 500 series tractors were the garden tractors that can do what you need done with your driveway. They are very capable and have a vast array of implements made over a 25 year span that will attach to the tractor allowing not only mowing and plowing but snowblowing, tilling, front-end loaders, driveway sweepers, grading, etc.

This is what you need for the driveway and yard you have. It will last you many many years.

[Tankman 3,523]

My '85 416-8 never lets me, or grandsons, down. We're plowin' snow today in NE PA.

 

The 416-8 was terribly neglected, now lives in my heated barn. Lots of fixin', shop time for the boys.

 

 

[Ken B 3,189]

If you are seriously looking the 416-8 that Tankman posted is the one to look for. Extremely reliable, plenty of power out of its single cylinder Kohler and less maintenance than an Onan powered tractor. With that 1/4 mile long driveway and it being gravel I'd equip it with a snow blade first. If the drive is fairly level and the gravel is packed down good you can always look for a snow thrower or blower later. A nice clean one at a reasonable price shouldn't be too hard to find in your area. As for the 211 and a 1/4 mile long driveway? Best way I can sum that up is it would be like bringin a knife to a gun fight..  .

[lodestonefarm 41]

Why not find a quick attach plow for the TC45?

 

If my driveway were that long, I would drop the blower of my current garden tractor and put a blade on my JD850 CUT.

 

30 -40 year old garden tractors can have a nasty way of disappointing you when you least expect it.

@Save Old Iron-

 

You make a very good point.  In fact, my first consideration was to put a blade on the front of the NH since the bucket is not the easiest to use.  But when I started pricing those they were in the $1000 range.  And that $1000 would sit around 8+ months of the year which then prompted me to started looking for other ways to move that snow.  

 

The time spent moving snow IS a consideration and one that's easy to overlook.  I think my search has to expand and it will probably come down to what I find first that fits my budget- small tractor with implement(s) or attachment for existing tractor that doesn't break the bank.  Would a small plow on the front of the appropriate WH tractor work for 6" of wet snow?  Would it be faster than a snow blower?  

[pfrederi 18,609]

With weights and chains you could plow 6". I find plowing to be faster than blowing...especially if you can only blow in one direction because of the wind (a frequent issue for me.)  The issue with plows is where to put the stuff after the second or third snowfall if it hasn't melted off.  i always plow 2 or 3 feet beyond the edge of the driveway to leave room for a follow on storm. If your snow stays around or you do not have extra space to shove it out of the way a blower might be better.

Edited January 24, 2015 by pfrederi

[Tankman 3,523]

Like pfrederi, a couple of feet each side of the gravel drive way is cleared when I push snow.

 

Only happened to me once, plowed the driveway, clear sailin'. Then, another load of white junqué. Where did I put that? Plowed a walkway and the end of the driveway, hey, walk to your car.

 

What Horse is best? They're all great but, wouldn't consider a vertical shaft engine. I adore the one cylinder 12 hp Kohlers, never let me down with proper maintenance.

 

The 416-8 is a 1985 model, a brute, I picked it up for next to nothin' a couple of years ago. That's the Horse I would cherish for a do all Horse.  

[Forest Road 594]

Welcome to RS!!!

My family has a vacation home in northern NY. I needed a machine that could do a variety of tasks year round. Had to be easy to maintain, parts and accessories readily available, and fit in a 6' truck bed. We have a 1/4 mile+ shared driveway which needs annual grading, lawns to mow, and giant snow banks left from the plow guy which need to be moved. My 314h does it all with ease.

In my opinion a 12, 14, 16 hp Kohler 8 speed tractor is the way to go. They're as simple and trouble free as you can get.

Single cylinder Kohler engines can't be beat. Easy to maintain and known to go 2000+ hours. Onans are nice but are prone to problems specific to how they're mounted in Whell Horse tractors.

For your driveway single stage snow blowers are awesome. Snow plows work well and mid mount grader blades clean it all up in the spring. 12hp will easily run a 42" mower deck as well.

Look at c series and 300-400 series tractors. Best of luck!!!