'74 c160 Auto Ring Job

[Joker72 78]

@oliver2-44 So you just don't put the balance gear and needle bearings back in upon re-assembly?  No other adjustments to "delete" it?

 

Thanks.

[ebinmaine 76,925]

3 minutes ago, Joker72 said:

@oliver2-44 So you just don't put the balance gear and needle bearings back in upon re-assembly?  No other adjustments to "delete" it?

 

Thanks.

 

That's correct.  

 

The vibration of the engine will likely change. 

It's just a matter of finding the right RPM to "work" at.  

 

[WHX?? 54,183]

1 hour ago, Joker72 said:

let the snow threats blow over

Yep your not in dire straits yet so wait till you can lay it up for a bit. Yes you can measure the bore and all that good stuff with just the head off. 

[702854boy 432]

23 minutes ago, WHX?? said:

dire straits

Are we installing microwave ovens and moving color tvs now?

[kpinnc 16,817]

2 hours ago, ineedanother said:

is it reasonable to open the block and break the balance gears to remove them without getting into an entire teardown?

 

Yes. 

 

Just drop the pan. The bottom gear can be reached with snap ring pliers. Top one depends on the throw of the crank as to how much of a pain it is. Probably easier to break that one. Just don't leave any debris in the case. But both shafts will (can) be left in place. 

[Joker72 78]

@oliver2-44can to pull the piston to replace the rings without touching the balance gear?

 

[oliver2-44 11,180]

Yes, you can unbolt the rod from the bottom and pull the piston out the top.

whit the rod out, its even a little more access to remove those pesky balance gears.

If john Deere though they didn't need them, a Wheel Horse sure doesn't need them. (OK I'm biased)

[ebinmaine 76,925]

53 minutes ago, Joker72 said:

@oliver2-44can to pull the piston to replace the rings without touching the balance gear?

 

 

Remove the gears..... or you'll eventually wish you did.  

 

With the piston & rod out it's an easy enough task. 

[Joker72 78]

@ebinmaineI'm not arguing against but I do want to consider that it runs, what seems to be near perfectly, with the exception of consuming oil.    ??

Edited 19 hours ago by Joker72

[squonk 45,201]

21 hours ago, oliver2-44 said:

@Joker72

Here's some pictures of the C161 I picked several years ago. 

It was parked for many years as the balance gear destroyed the side of the piston.

You can see a needle in the oil pan and piston picture trash.

If you keep the balance gears, when you replace the bearings you also have to check the short polished shafts they ride on. As I recall, the shafts have a very tight wear allowance.

Had the exact same thing! 

 

[ebinmaine 76,925]

9 minutes ago, Joker72 said:

@ebinmaineI'm not arguing against but I do want to consider that it runs, what seems to be near perfectly, with the exception of consuming oil.    ??

 

....... for now.  

 

The gears wear. The gear's bearings wear. The shafts wear. Combine those and it doesn't go well.  

 

Here's a video of one of my own C160 K341s from several years ago. 

 

 

 

 

 

I get your logic. If it ain't broke....

But REALLY check your own gears when you have the engine apart. 

 

They WILL be out of spec.  

 

 

Again ... I will NEVER go into another Kohler big block without removing the balance gears. 

[Joker72 78]

I see.  Great vid!  Thanks for sharing.

[Joker72 78]

Any long-term success stories after removing the balance gear?  10-15 yrs of service since removal??

 

Thanks!

Edited 18 hours ago by Joker72

[ebinmaine 76,925]

2 minutes ago, Joker72 said:

Any long-term success stories after removing the balance gear??  10-15 yrs of service since removal??

 

Thanks!

 

 

@kpinnc  ?

[pfrederi 19,652]

These engines with balance gear lasted a long time.  Maybe  a couple thousand hours. Okay they are small bearings and if the engine is not taken care of with oil changes they are probably the first failure point..  But the are not some self destruct mechanism.  I do not like the vibration i get when i remove them..  At 77 if I do an overhaul and leave them in and change the oil appropriately... probably not going to be problem.  K series also threw rods occasionally not related to balance gears.,

[ebinmaine 76,925]

1 hour ago, pfrederi said:

These engines with balance gear lasted a long time.  Maybe  a couple thousand hours. Okay they are small bearings and if the engine is not taken care of with oil changes they are probably the first failure point..  But the are not some self destruct mechanism.  I do not like the vibration i get when i remove them..  At 77 if I do an overhaul and leave them in and change the oil appropriately... probably not going to be problem.  K series also threw rods occasionally not related to balance gears.,

 

 

If you had a set as loose as the ones in my video, would you run them??

[kpinnc 16,817]

2 hours ago, Joker72 said:

Any long-term success stories after removing the balance gear?  10-15 yrs of service since removal??

 

Can't speak for quite that long, but the couple that I have are still running. I've never heard of one failing after. But the higher HP (14/16)  will definitely have a little more thump but no more gear mesh whine when removed. 

[Joker72 78]

All great information.  It will be interesting to see the condition of my balance gear as compared to the one in the vid.  

[leabassett@sbcglobal.net 161]

I pulled the gears out of two of my 14 HP motors. They seem to run fine. I opened up a 14 that was on a John Deere 214 and it came factory without them.

[Joker72 78]

Do you have to remove the crankshaft to get the balance gear out?

[ebinmaine 76,925]

33 minutes ago, Joker72 said:

Do you have to remove the crankshaft to get the balance gear out?

 

I removed my balance gears by driving the shaft into the block, then empty the shaft and drive it back in again from the outside.

Not the easiest way but saves removal of any other parts.  

[squonk 45,201]

The K321 in my 953 was a Richmond Red overhaul with no gears anymore. There's quite a bit of vibration at mid throttle but I just wear impact mechanics gloves and it really doesn't bother me. 

[leabassett@sbcglobal.net 161]

2 hours ago, Joker72 said:

Do you have to remove the crankshaft to get the balance gear out?

you can get one out with snap ring pliers. The other one I split with a cold chisel. I have done two like that. Just make sure you clean it out good.

[squonk 45,201]

Odds are your cylinder is out of round , the crank is out of round or both. Don't try to be cheap. Tear it down and have a machine shop look at it. If you don't, you might as well throw your money down a toilet.