Betcha y’all didn’t know 9

[953 nut 63,535]

January 9, 1960, Construction began on the Aswan High Dam in Egypt, and upon completion in 1970 it generated enormous amounts of electric power and allowed for the control of the annual Nile flood.

[Handy Don 15,593]

Yes, it did that.

Also the lack of sediment in its outflow has caused depleted farmland in the Nile delta through erosion leading to saltwater intrusion from the sea. Trapped sediment has gradually reduced the dam’s capacity.

That dam also encouraged Ethiopia to erect a massive dam across the Blue Nile which will have economic, environmental, and political consequences over a much larger area. One result will be less water in the Nile and coming down to the Aswan. 

[ri702bill 10,947]

11 minutes ago, Handy Don said:

leading to saltwater intrusion from the sea

I hate when that happens!!

[Ed Kennell 44,066]

 

The Aswan High Dam Francis runners were not the largest we built, but the shipping was a challenge.  They were trucked from our York, Pa. plant to Pittsburg, Pa. where the entire 300 ton rig was driven on to a barge.  The barge was towed by tug boats from the Ohio to the Nile where the truck drove to the dam site.

 

 

 

[ineedanother 1,829]

5 hours ago, Ed Kennell said:

 

The barge was towed by tug boats from the Ohio to the Nile where the truck drove to the dam site.

 

A truck with Michigan tags by chance?  @Pullstart 

[Ed Kennell 44,066]

13 minutes ago, ineedanother said:

A truck with Michigan tags

On the tractor maybe,  but all trailers seem to have Maine tags.

[lynnmor 8,380]

11 minutes ago, Ed Kennell said:

On the tractor maybe,  but all trailers seem to have Maine tags.

Many have learned to register their trailers in Maine to get around taxes and inspection.  

[Beap52 1,848]

China's Three Gorges Dam is supposedly slowed down the earth's rotation.  It's weight has caused thousands of earthquakes in the area.  It's also linked to increased land slides due to changes in water pressure and land stability.  I wonder if the Three Gorges Dam has helped in the movement of the North Magnetic Pole? 

[Ed Kennell 44,066]

1 hour ago, Beap52 said:

China's Three Gorges Dam is supposedly slowed down the earth's rotation. 

I doubt this, but if true, could we have 25 hour days soon?  

Three Gorges like all large hydro projects required extensive lab model testing to develop the most efficient and cavitation free turbine.  In addition due to the heavy sediment in the Yangtze River, we did a lot of lab work testing materials and overlay procedures to protect the turbine components from the erosion caused by the sediment.

 

[SylvanLakeWH 30,121]

People simply don't learn / understand that regardless of what form it takes, you can't get energy for "free". All energy transforms and comes at a great cost. Dams are but one example. Pick your poison.

 

It is remarkable how many times I have discussed EVs with people who think that they are completely emissions free. No understanding of how electricity is made and transmitted. Same with wind, thermal, etc. 

 

I'm not anti EV - I love my little A-60 ...! But it ain't "green". And I don't mean JD green...

[Handy Don 15,593]

The newly concentrated body of water behind the Three Gorges Dam is the cause of the rotational slowdown, not the dam itself.

Dynamically, a larger mass farther from the axis causes slower rotation and can shift the alignment of the axis.

[groundhog47 444]

15 hours ago, Beap52 said:

China's Three Gorges Dam is supposedly slowed down the earth's rotation.  It's weight has caused thousands of earthquakes in the area.  It's also linked to increased land slides due to changes in water pressure and land stability.  I wonder if the Three Gorges Dam has helped in the movement of the North Magnetic Pole? 

I have always considered that the earth's rotation was kind of like a car/truck tire. When out of balance you feel it and compensate with strategic weights distribution. Earthquakes and plate shifts plus vvolcanic events seem to be moving the earth's "wheel weights". Pole shift, that's a good point too. Guess I'd best be really careful next time I drive my Social Security check to bank, HA!

[oliver2-44 11,136]

14 hours ago, Ed Kennell said:

  In addition due to the heavy sediment in the Yangtze River, we did a lot of lab work testing materials and overlay procedures to protect the turbine components from the erosion caused by the sediment.

 

I happen to be at the shop with some of our rehab turbine parts when they doing the overlay on a runner. 

The overlay was being done is a enclosure so I could not see it, but it was quite a noisy process, whatever it was

[Handy Don 15,593]

1 hour ago, groundhog47 said:

I have always considered that the earth's rotation was kind of like a car/truck tire. When out of balance you feel it and compensate with strategic weights distribution. Earthquakes and plate shifts plus vvolcanic events seem to be moving the earth's "wheel weights". Pole shift, that's a good point too.

A LOT of papers have been written exploring the potential effects of these natural phenomena on rotation, and vice versa, and a few about human-caused stuff like warming, dams/reservoirs, fracking, and even nuclear detonations. One example is wondering where water from melted polar regions would end up due to the interaction of axis shift, rotational rate change, gravity, and centripetal forces. Contrary to popular belief, ocean water levels are NOT all at the same “elevation.” (And what is “elevation” anyway when things move around?!)

Most intriguing for me is that there is still so much uncertainty about what lies deep below the surface of this earth! 

Edited 3 hours ago by Handy Don

[Ed Kennell 44,066]

6 hours ago, SylvanLakeWH said:

People simply don't learn / understand that regardless of what form it takes, you can't get energy for "free". All energy transforms and comes at a great cost. Dams are but one example. Pick your poison.

Well said Jim.  

Today around 70% of the US electricity is produced by steam turbines that are fired by gas, oil, coal, and nuclear.  Solar, wind, and hydro share the production of the other 30%.

These steam turbines can not be turned on and off to meet power demands.  When I joined the Allis Chalmers Hydro Turbine Division in 1964 most of my work involved developing reversible pump turbines that would become the battery for these steam turbines. These machines would pump water to an upper reservoir during weekends and nighttime hours when power demands were low and drop the water generating electricity during weekday daylight hours when demand was high.    I spent thousands of hours in the '60s and '70s developing these pump turbines in the model test lab.   They included TVAs Raccoon Mt., Californias Oroville, Duke Energy Bad Creek.   And after spending millions Con Eds proposed Cornwall project that was stopped by environmental concerns mainly about the migration of the striped bass.  We have a local proposed Cuffs Run pump turbine project that has been delayed for years due to environmental concerns.

The first 25 years of my work in hydro was developing efficient high HP turbines that were cavitation free.

The last 20 years had the same goals but also much time and dollars were spent addressing the environmental problems.

We spent a lot of time with the US Army Corp of Engineers developing fish ladders, fish bypass systems, and fully spherical gap free Kaplan runners for the Bonneville project on the Columbia river.  All these efforts were to improve the salmon migration and reduce injuries.

Also worked with TVA to develop the first Francis runner that naturally injected air thru the discharge edges of the turbine.  This was done for the Norris Dam project in Tennessee.  This greatly improved the DOL (dissolved oxygen level) of the downstream water and eliminated the cost of air compressors.  Also developed self-lubricating bushings to replace all grease and oil lubricated bearings.

 

IMO, the long-term answer for the all-electric movement will be Nuclear fired steam turbines (TMI is coming back online) with Pump / Turbine storage batteries.     The nuke waste will probably be given a one-way ticket on a disposable ship to a distant black hole.

 

[Handy Don 15,593]

5 minutes ago, Ed Kennell said:

IMO, the long-term answer for the all-electric movement will be Nuclear fired steam turbines (TMI is coming back online) with Pump / Turbine storage batteries.     The nuke waste will probably be given a one-way ticket on a disposable ship to a distant black hole.

I've mentioned before that my first job out of college was in the nuclear engineering department of EBASCO, a builder of power plants and other energy facilities and customer of Allis Chalmers! I share Ed’s view that nuclear power will come back as the backbone but it isn’t just waste that’s important--dissipating excess heat in an environment is a huge challenge. The future of energy storage will, I think, be more varied due to the many different situational environmental factors.

[Ed Kennell 44,066]

24 minutes ago, Handy Don said:

The future of energy storage will, I think, be more varied due to the many different situational environmental factors.

Agreed, I will point out the Pump/Turbine storage projects can be designed to have a much lower environmental impact than a run of the river hydro turbine.

The P/T does not require a dam across a river and can use an existing natural or man made swimming pool lake for the upper reservoir like Seneca Falls.   No need to flood thousands of acres of farmland.     Many of these P/T are buried deep underground  like Raccoon MT.

 

Secena Falls P/T upper reservoir    The river dam is not used by the P/T  only for river run turbines installed in the dam.

 

 

 

Raccoon Mt P/T upper reservoir

 

 

 

[Ed Kennell 44,066]

1 hour ago, oliver2-44 said:

 

The overlay was being done is a enclosure so I could not see it, but it was quite a noisy process, whatever it was

It was a flame spray process involving high temp preheat, noise , and gas. Obviously requiring air conditioned heat resistant self-contained breathing suits.  Not a fun job.       BTW, after commissioning the first runner the process was changed to correct some failed areas.

[Handy Don 15,593]

Candlewood Lake in Connecticut (not far from @stevebo) is actually a reservoir created specifically for pumped storage. The Rocky River project connects it to the Housatonic River. 

Not in constant use, its goals are partly to maintain the lake as a recreational resource, partly to hold reserve power, and partly to moderate extreme water level variations in the river. 

It came online in 1929. 

I did some analytic work for the refurbishment of the Lewiston pumped storage reservoir near Niagara Falls. 

Edited 2 hours ago by Handy Don

[Beap52 1,848]

Taum Sauk Hydroelectric Power Station is one of those electric generators,  that I think you all are talking about, south of St. Louis, Missouri that is the largest "roller compacted concrete" dam in North America.  We visited the state park  below the dam and noticed huge boulders scattered around.  We were later told that in the dam had burst in the early morning on December 14, 2005 that sent one billion gallons in a 20 foot wall of water down towards the campground below.  Being as it was winter no campers were around however the campground director and his family was swept away but all survived.  Interesting video and read if one googles it.  

 

You all come up with some interesting conversations.

[Ed Kennell 44,066]

22 minutes ago, Handy Don said:

 

I did some analytic work for the refurbishment of the Lewiston pumped storage reservoir near Niagara Falls. 

Interesting small world Don.   I built and tested the Lewiston P/T model as well as the Robert Moses model that was used to land one of Voith Hydros largest contracts with New York Power.      $275,000,000 for the upgrade.

This picture of the model runner still hangs in my shop.     The actual model runner should still be on display at the visitor center.

 

 

[Ed Kennell 44,066]

9 minutes ago, Beap52 said:

Taum Sauk Hydroelectric Power Station is one of those electric generators,

Being only 9 years old in 1953, I was not involved in the building these turbines or the dam that failed in 2005.    At the time this was the largest Pump/Turbine project in the US.       I did through lab model testing develop the runners that were used for the plant upgrades in 1972 and again in 1998.    It is interesting to note these hydro turbines, primarily due to pitting damage from cavitation, had a 20-25 year life.     It wasn't till 1975 during the Raccoon Mt. testing that we found a way to do high speed underwater observation of the cavitation and could then make the necessary shape changes to eliminate the problem thus extending the life of these machines.

 

[Ed Kennell 44,066]

My apologies to Richard for pirating his Betcha Y'll didn;t know #9. 

   But, when mentioned Aswan High Dam, you opened 47 years of memories in this old brains storage shed.