Cap bearing leaking, how would you handle it

[thekevin 51]

This is on my 69 Raider 12.  When I got it the transaxle was full of water.  It didn't have any fluid in it at all, just water.  I drained all of the water out and then filtered some used motor oil I had and filled the trans up with that to try and combat any rust that might have been in there.  I did that last night and when I went out to the garage today I had a lake of oil in the floor.  I power washed off the trans and it is leaking out from around the cap bearing.  I am not interested at all in tearing this thing down.  What are the chances I can seal it from the outside and at least slow it down enough just to use thing as a mower.

[kpinnc 15,725]

10 minutes ago, thekevin said:

What are the chances I can seal it from the outside and at least slow it down enough just to use thing as a mower.

 

May be pretty good. The trouble will be cleaning the cap bearing enough to get something to stick to it. 

 

Does it have a pin hole from corrosion or what? Odd that it never moves but somehow started leaking. 

[wallfish 18,628]

11 minutes ago, thekevin said:

What are the chances I can seal it from the outside

Clean, clean, clean it. No oil residue left at all. Then clean the oil off! LOL (Nothing will stick to oil) Use some sand paper after that to remove the paint or at least rough'n it up.

Seal it with an oil resistant compound such as Seal-All or one of the Permatex oil resistant products and then press a washer of the appropriate size into that sealant to cover and protect it. 

Yes you could use something like JB-Weld epoxy too but that epoxy stuff gets hard so the next guy will certainly have a much harder time cleaning it off to change the plug.

That's just  worth  of backyard hammer mechanic advise to get'er done. 

[WHX?? 52,941]

Like KP said getting it clean enough. JB weld might work. Guessing you might be putting a band aid on a bullet hole tho. Something caused it to crack and if you don't find out what it is more damage may happen. 

[thekevin 51]

I am wondering if it maybe was the water in it freezing and pushing it out like a freeze plug.  

[WHX?? 52,941]

Possible... corrosion from the water and wear due to lack of oil doesn't help. Be interesting to see the rest of the bearing and the shafr beyond. 

Any signs of other seals leaking?

[thekevin 51]

I was able to get a better pic of it and it's way worse than what I thought.  The axle bearing and the other cap bearing behind the main drive pulley are also leaking a little bit as well.  This isn't looking good.

[kpinnc 15,725]

Wow. 

 

I say split and fix the right way. Either a heck of alot of pressure or corrosion did that. Or both... 

 

If the outer caps are deformed like that, you have to wonder if other sections internal of the race are as well. If either of those needle bearings fail, that main shaft will misalign and could destroy the transmission. 

 

Short term you can clean it well and spackle on some Flex Seal or similar. You just want to hold the oil in it. I wouldn't use anything epoxy-like because of the difficulty it could cause later. 

Edited October 24 by kpinnc

[ri702bill 10,084]

4 hours ago, kpinnc said:

If the outer caps are deformed like that, you have to wonder if other sections internal of the race are as well. If either of those needle bearings fail, that main shaft will misalign and could destroy the transmission. 

 

Any loose needles inside the Unidrive will surely find their way into the mesh of gear teeth at the wrong time and irrepairable damage will occur to the gears. 

You MAY wish to drain the oil now and look at what comes out - needles or metal chunks  mean it's time to open it up Having that much water in it may have also help gum up the fork detent mechanism too.

[ebinmaine 74,608]

6 hours ago, thekevin said:

.  This isn't looking good.

 

 

 

IMHO and experience this bearing is trash. 

Using a transmission like this will only compound your issues. It needs to come apart.

[squonk 44,650]

You're wasting time trying to seal it. Tear it down and replace ALL the bearings or get another transmission

[JoeM 8,925]

Certainly taking it apart and making a proper repair is best.......but be ready to spend some bucks. Bearings, seals, not counting some gears are pretty pricey. You can wrap up a couple hundred real quick. Especially one that was filled with water. 

My last manual transmission adventure ended up with a donor transmission. I purchased a whole machine that had a good trans and needed other work for just a little more money than the parts. Took a while but I found a machine. 

Seal it, fill it and give it a try, If that bearing cap is that far gone chances are the rest is pitted internally also. 

You will know by running it, they like to growl at you when unhappy. 

 

link to bearing kit

https://wheelhorsepartsandmore.com/product-category/manual-transmissions/page/2/

[Achto 29,905]

10 hours ago, thekevin said:

filtered some used motor oil I had and filled the trans up with that

 

I'm guessing 10w 30 ? Or maybe 0w 20 ? Run it around a bit with the motor oil then switch to the recommended 80 90w. This will slow the leak down, but sooner or later that tranny's gonna need surgery. May cost up front to rebuild it, but it should last many years when it's done.

Edited October 24 by Achto

[953 nut 62,223]

The thinner motor oil pointed out a problem that may have gone unnoticed until a catastrophic failure occurred. Rebuilding would be costly up front but is the best long term solution. @JoeM's suggestion to find a good used transmission is probably the way to go for the short term, lower cost and a lot less work up front.   BUT, you will need to find a 1969 or earlier six speed or three speed transaxle. If the replacement unit has one inch axles you will also need to get the hubs with it. 1970 started the eight speed transaxle and the brake mechanism changed, it can be done but a bit of extra fabrication will be needed.   

Kevin @Pullstart did the eight speed swap and this thread will give you some guidance should you decide to go that route.

 

Edited October 24 by 953 nut

[WHX?? 52,941]

Of course we are just speculating on what might be going on inside. Could be more carnage could just need a couple of bearings. Only one way to find out tho. 

 

1 hour ago, JoeM said:

I purchased a whole machine that had a good trans

Yep Dan scored a whole tractor for 100 just for the eight speed. Spare for a pulling tractor he says. That said you maybe just patch it up & run like ya stole it while being on the hunt for a replacement tranny. Bad part about that option is your not exactly located where they are abundant. 

 

1 hour ago, JoeM said:

hey like to growl at you when unhappy. 

Say what Joe??? 

Yah little noisy but I saved her. 

[Pullstart 68,209]

When you can find a parts tractor for a hundred or so, it makes rebuilding and fixing much easier.  I’ve run much worse, until I found a donor transmission to swap in.  My first available was an 8 speed as @953 nut mentioned, and I did the work with a little thinking but zero guidance.  
 

 

Back then, it was out of necessity.  Now, it’s custom.  

[JoeM 8,925]

4 minutes ago, WHX?? said:

Yah little noisy but I saved her

This when you are glad it is a hobby!

[JoeM 8,925]

11 hours ago, thekevin said:

rust that might have been in there

One thing you can do to get an idea of what is going on inside. Use a flexible magnet and poke around in the fill hole and see what comes out. Might just tell the story. 

[thekevin 51]

I ran my bore scope down in the trans and it actually looks really good for being full of water.  I only paid $200 for this machine anyway but spent another $250 on parts to get it running.  I am still waiting on a few parts to see how the motor is so I may end up shoving this one in the corner until I decide what to do with it.  There were no bearings or metal tha came out when I drained the water but I will stick a magnet in there and see what comes out.