Another Selling Point For EV's

[Achto 26,612]

I'll let the people speak.

https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local/electric-vehicle-owners-face-huge-challenges-amid-chicago-cold-snap/3328085/

https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2024/01/17/tesla-battery-charging-station-cold-chicago/72252874007/

[SylvanLakeWH 24,234]

Thanks for post. 

 

As the owner of three battery powered  tractors i can tell you they are great while warm... and great while cold, but definitely not for long... 

 

Ill be keeping the C-105 dino juice tractor for plowing snow...

 

Electrics are great for all kinds of things. Batteries aren't there yet for cold weather daily driver unless you are going home charger to work charger...

 

 

[953 nut 51,970]

One of the TV networks did a EV test drive feature after christmas. One of their news people rented a Tesla and drove from Chicago to New York City. The trip took seven hours longer than with a gasoline powered car because of the frequent need to recharge batteries. When he stopped for the evening the motel had no charging stations, battery level was 60% so that shouldn't pose a problem, in the morning the battery level was only 30% because it had been a cold evening. The charging period that morning was two hours because the battery was so low.  With the exception of the A-60 I don't see any EVs in my future. However, if you are considering getting int an EV you might be able to score a good price from Hertz.     https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/hertz-sell-about-20000-evs-us-fleet-2024-01-11/

[elcamino/wheelhorse 9,069]

Saw report on national news tonight. Uber driver with an EV , said I am getting a gas unit!  He was not a happy camper.

[WHX?? 46,939]

These temps we been having none of them crank without being on a tender. Surprisingly enough the only one that started is the 502 tecky on a fairly new bat and no tender. 

[wallfish 15,960]

The tech is coming along but there's NO WAY I would go full on EV. Hybrid maybe.

[c-series don 7,868]

I have been a volunteer firefighter for over 35 years, last night I took a class on lithium ion batteries and electric vehicles. It was eye opening to say the least. Without going into specifics, let’s just say that you don’t want to be around when one of these goes on fire. I’m sure I’ll be taking more of these classes as they come available, as it’s in my best interest to protect myself and fellow firefighters. Our instructor basically told us that even they are still learning how to deal with these things. Water basically does nothing on these types of fires, once thermal runaway begins you basically have to let it run its course. In Europe they now have boom trucks and dumpsters they fill with water. They pickup the car and submerge it in water, hours later they remove it and the fire can start right back up again. Fire proof blankets have been used to slow the fire but don’t stop it. They have buried them then dug them back up two weeks later only to have the fire start again. Crazy stuff for sure. In closing I’ll say that if you happen to be around when one of these batteries goes on fire, get away. The slightest bit of smoke from the chemicals burning can kill you. Be safe. 

[8ntruck 6,420]

I saw an article on the new Ram 1500 hybrid.  Sounds like something I'm going to investigate sometime.  The main motive source for the truck is a motor, maybe more than one.  The V6 engine only runs a generator.  It is not connected mechanically to the wheels.  

 

The battery pack is said to be good for something like 50 to 60 miles.  Beyond that, the engine kicks in to charge the batteries and run the drive motor for a total range of something like 500 miles.

 

I'll assume that there is a plug in charger on board somewhere.  

 

That amount of battery range would do for better than 80% of our daily vehicle usage.  The longer range on gas looks like it would cover our distance travel as well.

 

Need to find out about price, towing capacity, and maybe watch the first couple years of production vehicles before I'd pull the trigger on one, though.

[wallfish 15,960]

11 hours ago, 8ntruck said:

watch the first couple years of production vehicles before I'd pull the trigger on one, though.

Right.

It's like a 50/50 shot of getting something good so you might be better off just putting the $90K down on red at the casino.

[WHX?? 46,939]

Well that electric F-150 has been out for a few years now what's the report on those?

[peter lena 8,103]

@Achto  agree on the cold issue , not really a fan , but thats the future , would have thought that there would be more if any  cold climate operations . like  Minnesota /  Canada. another thing / cost would be to have a home  plug in port .  hard to imagine seeing the last combustible  vehicle / truck built . not looking forward to it  , Pete   

[953 nut 51,970]

4 hours ago, peter lena said:

another thing / cost would be to have a home  plug in port .

They are only about $ 1,000 plus the cost of electricity goin up.     

6 hours ago, WHX?? said:

Well that electric F-150 has been out for a few years now what's the report on those?

 

[WHX?? 46,939]

Some nice old iron in ther Richard...

[Achto 26,612]

On 1/17/2024 at 10:15 PM, 8ntruck said:

I saw an article on the new Ram 1500 hybrid.

 

Here is Dodge's release on the 2025 Ram Charger. Might be some thing to consider if you wish to have a hybrid.

https://www.ramtrucks.com/revolution/ram-1500-ramcharger.html

 

Personally I would be more interested in the 2025 Ram with the new 3.0 I6.  Just like their diesel engines, Ram did their homework with a 6 in row that will make it go.

https://www.ramtrucks.com/2025/ram-1500.html

 

Ram is also planning on releasing an EV truck in 2025. Strangest feature on this truck is that it will have single peddle operation.

https://www.ramtrucks.com/revolution/ram-1500-rev.html

 

Edited January 19 by Achto

[Handy Don 10,660]

IMHO, it would be a mistake to assume that the troubles EVs are experiencing now will not be resolved going forward. It might be in fits and starts, but it’ll be real and significant. Who’d have envisioned in 2000 that a 10-speed, double-clutched, computer-controlled automatic transmission networked to an engine management computer would give significantly better efficiency and fuel economy than a standard shift transmission?

 

My daughter and SIL bought an EV and after rebates and offers from the manufacturer, their electric company, and the state the out-of-pocket cost of their charger was very low.

Edited January 19 by Handy Don

[WHX?? 46,939]

Interesting the battery is liquid cooled. Wonder if it's an absorption system say like a RV fridge? 

 

Note the I6 requires premium gas. Isn't availability an issue for some areas? 

Hopefully they keep the dash distractions to a minimum... NOT. 

Driving these things will be like flying a plane or submarine. Continuous scanning of displays required = less eye time to watch out for the other guy. 

Edited January 19 by WHX??

[lynnmor 6,817]

2 hours ago, Handy Don said:

 

My daughter and SIL bought an EV and after rebates and offers from the manufacturer, their electric company, and the state the out-of-pocket cost of their charger was very low.

 

Actually the costs were transferred to others that had no choice or benefit.

[953 nut 51,970]

I have to agree with @Handy Don's assessment that over time the kinks will be worked out and EVs will become less prone to problems. However, at my age I won't need a new EV by the time that rolls around. All of the reports I have seen indicate that an EV costs less per mile for charging the battery verses filling the gas tank. But, in North Carolina there is a $ 140.00 annual EV tax to make up for the road tax not being paid by EV owners which makes therm about equil. Other states have even higher EV taxes and some states are imposing taxes on EV charging stations and eventually big brother will figure out a way to charge a tax home charging stations too

In conclusion, we aren't looking for a new car but when the time comes it will be internal combustion powered.

[c-series don 7,868]

I live on the eastern end of Long Island. Our power is either generated here or it comes from upstate New York. It can’t come from multiple directions since we have the ocean on one side and the Long Island Sound on the other. It potentially could come from Connecticut but the environmentalists stopped that. A few years ago I was speaking with a very knowledgeable employee of the power company, and he said that if one third of the people switched to electric vehicles it would collapse our power grid!! Everyone coming home at night and plugging in their cars, the grid simply couldn’t handle that load. 

[Sparky-(Admin) 19,651]

On 1/18/2024 at 9:32 PM, Achto said:

 

Personally I would be more interested in the 2025 Ram with the new 3.0 I6.  Just like their diesel engines, Ram did their homework with a 6 in row that will make it go.

https://www.ramtrucks.com/2025/ram-1500.html

 

 

That in-line 6 really intrigues me. Wonder what the MPG’s are. I love my V/8 Tundra for it’s incredible reliability but it’s a gas hog. 

[953 nut 51,970]

9 hours ago, c-series don said:

Our power is either generated here or it comes from upstate New York. It can’t come from multiple directions

The analogy I have used for the grid would be fighting a large fire in a remote location without a water source. A temporary tank is set up and the firefighters pump from the tank to extinguish the fire. The tank is being filled and replenished by several tankers of various sizes bringing in water from several other nearby water sources. As long as the temporary tank is being replenished it doesn't matter what water source or tank truck brought the water. But, if the tankers can't keep up with the fire fighters' water needs the tank will go dry and the fire will not be extinguished. 

Many power generating stations, large and small, put power into the grid to support it. When smaller reliable but "inefficient" generating stations are removed from the system and replaced by"green energy" and we have a cloudy day with high wind conditions that require wind units to be shut down I guess EV owners will just have to stay home.    

[Handy Don 10,660]

Lots of interesting and useful points of view here. Thank you!

 

Let us not forget that today’s infrastructure and regulations were not created as a grand plan, but as a series of decisions. These were mostly pragmatic responses to need but often colored by power, profit, and greed. Economic, cultural, political, and religious factors have always been at play. There were always “winners” and “losers” and I doubt that will change in the future.  

 

For example, not far from me is the Rockefeller Estate “Kykuit" built by the founder of Standard Oil who became, to me, unfathomably wealthy through ruthless control of gasoline distribution and politicians while feeding the expectations of a country in love with automobile travel. John D sold gas cheap to get folks hooked and to drive independent sellers out of business. Then he jacked up the price. Politicians felt the demand for roadways and to fund it, eventually, taxation ensued--it seemed logical in that setting to have fuel consumption and vehicle weight indicate road utilization. 

 

Going forward I expect more piecemeal and regional “solutions” and corrections. The roads and their bridges need maintenance regardless of the fuel the cars and trucks use. Electric consumption is likely to increase but at different rates everywhere and distribution upgrades are incredibly costly and slow. The bargain of early ownership of an EV may dissipate. Governments will continue to have agendas effected through taxes and regulations which will benefit some and cost others. 

 

I personally benefitted for decades being able to deduct the interest on my mortgage when I paid income tax. The tax credit for my solar hot water system (50%) made the installation affordable. On the other hand, I’m not a fan of much that my village spends our taxes on and I’ve gotten little direct benefit from the local school tax.

[Andy N. 1,935]

On 1/17/2024 at 9:13 PM, c-series don said:

I have been a volunteer firefighter for over 35 years, last night I took a class on lithium ion batteries and electric vehicles. It was eye opening to say the least. Without going into specifics, let’s just say that you don’t want to be around when one of these goes on fire. I’m sure I’ll be taking more of these classes as they come available, as it’s in my best interest to protect myself and fellow firefighters. Our instructor basically told us that even they are still learning how to deal with these things. Water basically does nothing on these types of fires, once thermal runaway begins you basically have to let it run its course. In Europe they now have boom trucks and dumpsters they fill with water. They pickup the car and submerge it in water, hours later they remove it and the fire can start right back up again. Fire proof blankets have been used to slow the fire but don’t stop it. They have buried them then dug them back up two weeks later only to have the fire start again. Crazy stuff for sure. In closing I’ll say that if you happen to be around when one of these batteries goes on fire, get away. The slightest bit of smoke from the chemicals burning can kill you. Be safe. 

 

@c-series don check this video out. Fire department has 2 of these blankets and the car is still smoking as they tow it away to the junk yard.

 

 

[c-series don 7,868]

1 hour ago, 953 nut said:

The analogy I have used for the grid would be fighting a large fire in a remote location without a water source. A temporary tank is set up and the firefighters pump from the tank to extinguish the fire. The tank is being filled and replenished by several tankers of various sizes bringing in water from several other nearby water sources. As long as the temporary tank is being replenished it doesn't matter what water source or tank truck brought the water. But, if the tankers can't keep up with the fire fighters' water needs the tank will go dry and the fire will not be extinguished. 

Many power generating stations, large and small, put power into the grid to support it. When smaller reliable but "inefficient" generating stations are removed from the system and replaced by"green energy" and we have a cloudy day with high wind conditions that require wind units to be shut down I guess EV owners will just have to stay home.    

That’s a great analogy that I can relate to. Here is the tanker that I was on the purchasing committee for and am one of the main drivers of. As a volunteer fire department we are not required to have a CDL to drive fire trucks. However it is our department policy that you need a class A CDL with tank endorsement for this truck. I have taken it to many fires and of course parades since the purchase in 1996.

[wh500special 2,055]

1 hour ago, Handy Don said:

…Governments will continue to have agendas effected through taxes and regulations which will benefit some and cost others. 

 

I personally benefitted for decades being able to deduct the interest on my mortgage when I paid income tax. …

Don, I think you and I are sometimes copying each other’s homework, although I’m pretty sure you’re getting better grades than me…I’ve made these and similar points many times when EV discussions inevitably turn toward subsidies. 
 

great point!

 

Steve