Deck Spindle Housing Damage

[Ed Kennell 35,809]

@Brockport Bill s       post on spindle cleaning raised this question.  I didn't want to pirate his post even though it is related.

 

What causes the destruction of the aluminum spindle housings?       It is always the right spindle and near the front that gets eaten away.   

   Most prevalent on the SD, but the RDs also show damage at the same place.

 

Is it erosion wear from the moving grass,  chemical corrosion from the acidic grass, electro/chemical pitting from a static charge created by the blades ?

 

Any ideas from you chemical engineers?        The damage looks similar to the pitting on hydro turbines that is caused by cavitation.

 

The right front spindle on my 42" SD.   

 

Right front spindle on my 42" RD

 

 

 

The other four spindles show no damage.

 

[ri702bill 7,341]

Acidic wet clippings????

[squonk 38,940]

1 hour ago, ri702bill said:

Acidic wet clippings????

Yes

[elcamino/wheelhorse 9,052]

I thought it was caused by @squonk eggs.

[squonk 38,940]

1 minute ago, elcamino/wheelhorse said:

I thought it was caused by @squonk eggs.

That too. Those are usually found in Quadrajets on El Camino's.

[elcamino/wheelhorse 9,052]

Quadrjet problem was Waldo warts.

[ri702bill 7,341]

1 hour ago, elcamino/wheelhorse said:

Quadrjet problem was Waldo warts.

AKA the Quadra-bog....

[oliver2-44 8,852]

9 hours ago, ri702bill said:

Acidic wet clippings????

It seems this would effect all spindle housing, verses just the right outer one. 

[Ed Kennell 35,809]

8 hours ago, oliver2-44 said:

It seems this would effect all spindle housing, verses just the right outer one. 

Agreed Jim.   I understand the front edge of the CW spinning blades is throwing the clippings to the right on the SD decks, but it is strange to see the damage only on the front of the right spindle.         The damage is at the same place on the RD deck which is throwing the clippings to the rear.

[peter lena 8,072]

@Ed Kennell  that  rot , issue , is very common , with acidic grass issues , also very prominent with  no  regular under deck look see. regularly look over my decks , small detail changes , personally cut at highest settings , mirror  check under deck for anything . drop deck for a hot sun dry out , angular to sun , clean , and re oil soak  to kill off grunge , small file blades . my decks are  black oil stained under side . zero rust / rot . lubrication on a semi porous metal finish  is perfect for penetrating oil /  heavy open gear oil  combo , just my own  experience . my decks are now , lightly cleaned , re oiled and angularly  spring held up to the wall , soaking in lubricant , till spring , quiet bearings , everything moves by hand , just a change that worked for me ,  pete  

[tbear853 58]

I'm waiting on 3 new spindle housings and bearings for my 48" SD deck 78361 I bought in 2000 to replace the original 36" deck that came on my C-85.  The 36 was a load for the 8hp Kohler, but in the later '90s I swapped to a 16hp V-twin, it easily handles the 48" deck.  Well, here 23 years of mowing, (maybe 5 sets blades too)  later ...  the far right spindle lower bearing went south.  The spindle housings on the right and center were even missing chunks of aluminum.  I lubed them regular, but I knew they were "eroding". 

 

These new ones I'm gonna install willl likely get a rich brushed on coat of HF's "Iron Armor" truck bed liner ... likely the whole underside of the deck. 

 

I did thae deck once maybe 5 years ago with thinner "spray can" applied Rustoleum bed liner, but little remains of it.  My thinking is it was maybe too thin to last since it had to come out of a spray bomb. 

 

Then, I might use some thin stainless steel and "wrap" the spindal housings outer surfaces. 

Edited November 30, 2023 by tbear853

[OoPEZoO 366]

Without going into specifics, I work for a company that designs and manufactures mowers.  Looking at the top of the deck, if the blades spin clockwise, the right side front spindle will ALWAYS take the worst of it.  As the tall grass comes in the front, its cut by left and center blade, and thrown against the right spindle.  Some smaller portions get cut and thrown back at the center and middle, but no where near as much as that right side......doesn't matter where the discharge is.  That front right corner of the deck is also where we see holes wear through during abusing testing as well (think mowing sand).  If you reversed the blade direction, it would flip to the other side.  Not a WH thing....a mower deck design thing.  We are just seeing the long term effects due to these being designed well enough that they are still in service. Most would be rotted out and junked by now.  I can't speak to the aluminum housing pitting other than I have to think its due to the acidic nature of fresh cut grass......after all, the oldest spindles I have are cast iron and they still look perfect.  I have 6-7 aluminum spindles that are MUCH newer but are all chewed to hell.

[peter lena 8,072]

@tbear853  ever drop your deck /  for a look see , during cutting season ?  often  refer to "  break the grunge cycle " . use a mirror for a look under deck , quick easy deck drop , slide out , after clean out , prop up to sun , use the deck lift carriage  with a block of wood , pail , something to hold it in slanted place . sun gets it hot , drying , time for aerosol penetrating oil  spray down , hot deck , sucks in lubricant , of course spindle housings , light touch up on blades , small fine file . also cut at highest height , to help discharge , make sense ?  personally would not use anything thats going to create a cover to moisture / rot . my decks are all clean / soaking in lubricant over winter . found chain / cable spray , open gear spray , deck upside down , soaking in rust killing / grunge killer , works best .  you have to change what yo have been doing , maybe your grass is highly acidic ?  like a hot dry sun deck bake /  oil soak , pete   

[peter lena 8,072]

@tbear853   what my decks look like , notice the angular sun , heating up the deck , thats the grunge stop you want to establish . zero rot / rust . deck actually gets hot to touch , oil feed , finish , stains metal black . do it every year , pete 

 

[tbear853 58]

10 hours ago, OoPEZoO said:

Without going into specifics, I work for a company that designs and manufactures mowers.  Looking at the top of the deck, if the blades spin clockwise, the right side front spindle will ALWAYS take the worst of it.  As the tall grass comes in the front, its cut by left and center blade, and thrown against the right spindle.  Some smaller portions get cut and thrown back at the center and middle, but no where near as much as that right side......doesn't matter where the discharge is.  That front right corner of the deck is also where we see holes wear through during abusing testing as well (think mowing sand).  If you reversed the blade direction, it would flip to the other side.  Not a WH thing....a mower deck design thing.  We are just seeing the long term effects due to these being designed well enough that they are still in service. Most would be rotted out and junked by now.  I can't speak to the aluminum housing pitting other than I have to think its due to the acidic nature of fresh cut grass......after all, the oldest spindles I have are cast iron and they still look perfect.  I have 6-7 aluminum spindles that are MUCH newer but are all chewed to hell.

I don't believe I'd reverse blade direction for several reasons, like blade availability, etc ... but also because unless threads were changed to left hand thrfeads, the application of power to load would be trying to loosen my blade retaining bolt, as well as my deck to pulley bolts.  

 

I used to have a early '60s "701", it had iron spindle housings too.  I let it get away from me long ago, have tried to get it back too.

 

[peter lena 8,072]

@OoPEZoO  none of my spindles have rot . have also removed the baffling , and closed areas , that contain  dampness and rot out . regularly inspect my decks , for anything . experience has shown , lubrication feeding a deck  is what make them last , also did a complete  grease change over , with new bearings , to lucas  550 drop point chassis grease , also mule drive bearings , and pto  related bearings . no whining bearing noise , deck spins by hand , at pto drive , belt . never cut grass the same way . pete

[RED-Z06 2,120]

Ive never seen rot down here in Florida, decks are usually chewed up by sand long before alloy housings rot.

 

Is it possible these housings have Magnesium in them?  That looks like Mag rot on stihl saw cases.

 

https://www.sunrise-metal.com/die-cast-magnesium-vs-aluminum-understanding-the-differences-and-applications/#:~:text=Reactivity%3A Magnesium is a more,resists corrosion in most environments.

Edited December 1, 2023 by RED-Z06

[OoPEZoO 366]

13 hours ago, tbear853 said:

I don't believe I'd reverse blade direction for several reasons, like blade availability, etc ... but also because unless threads were changed to left hand thrfeads, the application of power to load would be trying to loosen my blade retaining bolt, as well as my deck to pulley bolts.  

 

I used to have a early '60s "701", it had iron spindle housings too.  I let it get away from me long ago, have tried to get it back too.

 

I wasn’t suggesting anyone reverse anything…..just pointing out that the right side gets the most wear due to the clockwise rotation of the blades. If you had some hypothetical deck that the blades spun counter clockwise, the wear would be on the left

[Ed Kennell 35,809]

12 hours ago, RED-Z06 said:

 

Is it possible these housings have Magnesium in them?

Good question.     

[Ed Kennell 35,809]

On 11/30/2023 at 8:49 AM, OoPEZoO said:

  Looking at the top of the deck, if the blades spin clockwise, the right side front spindle will ALWAYS take the worst of it.

It sure does and it make sense.  The clippings have been cut by 2 or 3 blades when they hit the right spindle.   

I also wonder if the front to back level of the deck could be a factor.     If a deck were improperly lower in the back, the rear of the blades would be reclipping the grass that the front of the blades has allready cut and throwing those short clippings to the left across the rear of the deck.    Towards that left rear corner where I see many decks rotted thru.

Would we see less damage to shells and spindles if we lowered the front of our decks more than the 1/8"recommended ?

[tbear853 58]

I had an "epiphany" last night, might make 3 round steel shields using some schedule 40 pipe I have, weld tabs in one end to attach on the 4 "longer" deck spindle attaching bolts extending below the alloy spindle housing bases, use nylock nuts to fasten before blades go on, length to be limited to above the blades some.  At least then, no direct grass clippings wet or otherwise ... nor rocks, etc. will hit the alloy spindle housings.  My vision is 360 degree tube bigger that the round base of the spindle housing, 4 tabs 3/16" thick in each but welded "recessed" up from the upper intended end so that the tubes are seated firmly against the underside of the deck itself.  The lower edge to be about 1/4" or so above the blade, open to air currents and inspection.  I could have them chromed to contrast with a bed lined deck under there ... if I am anticipating any shows.  

 

Alternatively, could just clamp some thick plastic covers around them, fashioned from old scrap pieces of discarded drop in bead liner pieces formed with heat over a pipe?  

 

I'll do some measuring this wet rainy day then.  Pics to come  if & when done.  

 

I seen it mentioned "left rear corner where I see many decks rotted thru." .... mine has a hole punched through from inside out on the extreme right rear behind the exit chute, next to the depth wheel bracket.  Not rot, but something wanted to make an exit and even rolled the steel out as it left.  I'm gonna patch it too.

Edited December 1, 2023 by tbear853

[tbear853 58]

4 hours ago, OoPEZoO said:

I wasn’t suggesting anyone reverse anything…..just pointing out that the right side gets the most wear due to the clockwise rotation of the blades. If you had some hypothetical deck that the blades spun counter clockwise, the wear would be on the left

Oh, I knew that ... but as I thought about it, I was intending just to say that applied force direction keeps the nuts tight. 

I once had a 701 with counter rotating blades that were locked into position on their shafts at 90 degrees to each other, the spindle shafts were gear driven by a cross shaft. 

My current one uses only tight nuts to lock the pulleys to the shafts and the shaft to the blades.

[RED-Z06 2,120]

4 hours ago, OoPEZoO said:

I wasn’t suggesting anyone reverse anything…..just pointing out that the right side gets the most wear due to the clockwise rotation of the blades. If you had some hypothetical deck that the blades spun counter clockwise, the wear would be on the left

My 60" Legacy XL deck has 2 blades that spin one way, and the left side discharge blade spins opposite

[RED-Z06 2,120]

38 minutes ago, tbear853 said:

I had an "epiphany" last night, might make 3 round steel shields using some schedule 40 pipe I have, weld tabs in one end to attach on the 4 "longer" deck spindle attaching bolts extending below the alloy spindle housing bases, use nylock nuts to fasten before blades go on, length to be limited to above the blades some.  At least then, no direct grass clippings wet or otherwise ... nor rocks, etc. will hit the alloy spindle housings.  My vision is 360 degree tube bigger that the round base of the spindle housing, 4 tabs 3/16" thick in each but welded "recessed" up from the upper intended end so that the tubes are seated firmly against the underside of the deck itself.  The lower edge to be about 1/4" or so above the blade, open to air currents and inspection.  I could have them chromed to contrast with a bed lined deck under there ... if I am anticipating any shows.  

 

Alternatively, could just clamp some thick plastic covers around them, fashioned from old scrap pieces of discarded drop in bead liner pieces formed with heat over a pipe?  

 

I'll do some measuring this wet rainy day then.  Pics to come  if & when done.  

 

I seen it mentioned "left rear corner where I see many decks rotted thru." .... mine has a hole punched through from inside out on the extreme right rear behind the exit chute, next to the depth wheel bracket.  Not rot, but something wanted to make an exit and even rolled the steel out as it left.  I'm gonna patch it too.

Gravely has big plastic cups that recess up around a lip below the spindles, dirt and debris accumulate inside the cups regardless, and they start to erode the housings.

[tbear853 58]

23 hours ago, RED-Z06 said:

Gravely has big plastic cups that recess up around a lip below the spindles, dirt and debris accumulate inside the cups regardless, and they start to erode the housings.

 

I wonder if they are open at the bottom?  I'd want something 4" or more ID and 3-1/4 or 3-1/2" deep, non rotating so balance is unaffected.  Open at the bottom is good.  Maybe make mine 2 piece, a base that bolts to the deck, and a slip on lower barrel that attaches to it? 

 

I found these all over the Ebay, some cheaper too, but this listing shows dimensions too. I guess these get sandwiched between a blade and the spindle with washers.  I wonder how the blade nut stays tight.  I guess they spin with the blade.  (Pack of 3) Genuine OEM Grasshopper 423680 Deflector Cones for ZTR Lawn Mowers | eBay 

Question is, am I looking at a steel washer in the base?  

Edited December 2, 2023 by tbear853