ebinmaine 62,932 #1 Posted September 15, 2022 Hey folks! I got this here engine motor powerplant putt-putt go-maker movement producer from Mr @wallfish John of the Massachusetts Wheelhorse contingency. We knew it made a... noise... Can you peoples give or take a listen and offer up some opinions facts thoughts comments.... 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
953 nut 51,461 #2 Posted September 15, 2022 When rotating the crankshaft slowly by hand the spring pressure no the valve will make a bit of noise as the valve closes and the cam shaft gets to the valve lash position. Remove the valve lifter cover and take a look while turning the crank by hand. 2 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jeff-C175 7,195 #3 Posted September 16, 2022 You're gonna pull the head I'm sure. When you have the head off, put your finger on each valve and the piston and make it make the noise. You might feel it. I presume it makes a hellish noise when it runs also? 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ebinmaine 62,932 #4 Posted September 16, 2022 4 minutes ago, Jeff-C175 said: presume it makes a hellish noise when it runs also? I haven't started it yet. @wallfish ? 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Handy Don 10,546 #5 Posted September 16, 2022 17 minutes ago, ebinmaine said: I haven't started it yet. A sensible precaution! Valve stem to cam tap seems plausible and @953 nut's suggestion is a pretty easy diagnostic! 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wallfish 15,905 #6 Posted September 16, 2022 It has already been running and it's not hellish loud but definitely a ticking noise. You can bench start it but don't run a 60" deck through heavy grass with it just yet 3 1 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RED-Z06 2,117 #7 Posted September 16, 2022 Kinda sounds like its a bit wide on the big end of the rod. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ebinmaine 62,932 #8 Posted September 16, 2022 6 hours ago, RED-Z06 said: Kinda sounds like its a bit wide on the big end of the rod. That's what I first thought but the lifter/follower idea makes perfect sense. It'll be a few days before I can tackle this. I'll certainly keep this thread updated. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ri702bill 7,259 #9 Posted September 16, 2022 (edited) 9 hours ago, RED-Z06 said: Kinda sounds like its a bit wide on the big end of the rod. Could be .... invert the engine, remove the oil pan (good time to clean it out) and rotate the crank back and forth with the rod cap at BDC - just enough to go from "drive" to "coast", no more with your one finger on the rod and another on the crank to feel and hear slop or lost motion. If it is apparent, remove the connecting rod cap, just the cap - inspect the cap and crank visually for damage / excessive wear. A mechanic's stethescope would be a great tool also to use as you rotate the crank to hear the lost motion. been there. Bill Edited September 16, 2022 by ri702bill 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bill D 1,595 #10 Posted September 16, 2022 Balance gears? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
squonk 38,840 #11 Posted September 16, 2022 Sounds way too solid for it to be a tappet. Balance gear or rod to crank. Pop the pan and you can tell pretty quick. Look for pieces in the pan. This came out of my engine and it was running! 2 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Snoopy11 5,713 #12 Posted September 16, 2022 Yeah, I have my 416-8 with the K341 in the garage... so I just went out and rotated my engine over. Really, all I hear is very, VERY slight tap (barely noticeable, can be likened to gently tapping your thumb on a table). Barely audible. In my experience, rod clearance issues aren't as noticeable when you rotate the engine over by hand... as the rod is pretty much just riding on top of the crank journal when you are rotating it over by hand... it isn't be PRESSURED down by erupting gazzoleen, thereby slapping the crank on downstroke, slapping the crank again when the crank rotates around, pushing the rod upward. I'm not saying that it isn't POSSIBLE that it could be the rod, but it's got to be a pretty sick clearance, I would think, for it to make THAT much noise when being rotated over by hand. Plus, if it was... it wouldn't just be a "tick" when it is running... that thing would sound like it was coming apart... I err on the side of what Mike mentioned... balance gear... but without pulling the pan... it's just guesswork... Don 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pullstart 59,526 #13 Posted September 16, 2022 17 hours ago, ebinmaine said: knew it made a... noise... Can you peoples give or take a listen and offer up some opinions facts thoughts comments.... That’s your left hand making something inside that noise maker clunk around. Bingo! 1 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Snoopy11 5,713 #14 Posted September 16, 2022 2 minutes ago, Pullstart said: That’s your left hand making something inside that noise maker clunk around. Bingo! Hahahaha... That's what we were all thinking... Don 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ri702bill 7,259 #15 Posted September 16, 2022 7 hours ago, ri702bill said: A mechanic's stethescope would be a great tool also to use as you rotate the crank to hear the lost motion. been there. Bill @Pullstart - Yanked the 327 out of my 68 elCamino in the late 70's, as it had "a noise". My FIL showed me how to use a short piece of broomstick as a sounding rod to find the bad journal. I spun the crank, he listened and nailed it. ..... I do so miss him...... 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pullstart 59,526 #16 Posted September 16, 2022 1 minute ago, ri702bill said: @Pullstart - Yanked the 327 out of my 68 elCamino in the late 70's, as it had "a noise". My FIL showed me how to use a short piece of broomstick as a sounding rod to find the bad journal. I spun the crank, he listened and nailed it. ..... I do so miss him...... I have used stethoscopes in the shop, but almost as good can pinpoint noises with a long screwdriver with the handle to my ear 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ri702bill 7,259 #17 Posted September 16, 2022 1 hour ago, Pullstart said: pinpoint noises with a long screwdriver with the handle to my ear As long as you use the good ear.... if both now are good - wait 10 years !! 1 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ri702bill 7,259 #18 Posted September 16, 2022 9 hours ago, squonk said: Look for pieces in the pan. This came out of my engine and it was running! What was that old song??? "Knock, knock, knockin' on Heaven's Door" .... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jeff-C175 7,195 #19 Posted September 16, 2022 2 hours ago, ri702bill said: As long as you use the good ear.... And the right end of the screwdriver! 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
953 nut 51,461 #20 Posted September 16, 2022 11 hours ago, ri702bill said: Could be .... invert the engine, remove the oil pan (good time to clean it out) and rotate the crank back and forth with the rod cap at BDC - just enough to go from "drive" to "coast", no more with your one finger on the rod and another on the crank to feel and hear slop or lost motion. If it is apparent, remove the connecting rod cap, just the cap - inspect the cap and crank visually for damage / excessive wear. A mechanic's stethescope would be a great tool also to use as you rotate the crank to hear the lost motion. been there. Bill If you are going to pull the rod cap you might as well get some Plastigage green and know for sure what clearance you have. 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ebinmaine 62,932 #21 Posted October 10, 2022 So just to keep you folks updated. I remove the cylinder head. Never been bored. Piston is marked std. Fair amount of wear in the Piston to wall clearance.. Still made the noise no matter where the Piston was in it's up and down movement. I removed the carburetor and messed around with the governor linkage just for kicks. Left that still and it still makes the noise. I removed the breather cover and I can see the valves quite clearly. They are going up and down and settling and rotating just like they should. I can make the noise whether the valves are moving or not. So I do not believe it to be the valves. I'll dig in further when I can... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wallfish 15,905 #22 Posted October 10, 2022 Balance gears ? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ebinmaine 62,932 #23 Posted October 10, 2022 4 minutes ago, wallfish said: Balance gears ? That's exactly what I was thinking. Probably going to try to run this engine without them. Any idea if you can get new replacement ones? Just out of curiosity. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wallfish 15,905 #24 Posted October 10, 2022 Removing them seems to be the consensus Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ebinmaine 62,932 #25 Posted October 10, 2022 3 minutes ago, wallfish said: Removing them seems to be the consensus I find the same. Near as I can tell the extra vibration occurs around 2000 RPM to maybe 2400(?). I can just run it at a different more smooth RPM. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
