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Hey all, 

i recently picked up a Raider 8 and and Charger 12 to add to my small but growing collection. Both need restored including paint and I have never had much painting experience when it comes to auto paint. Can someone give me some helpful tips on prep , like if i need to strip it to bare metal or not and what colors to use? As well as how to mix the paint with hardener and clear coat. 

Thank you in advance! 

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Can't answer your questions, but I would love to have any of my :wh:'s look as good as the one in your first picture...

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18 minutes ago, JHorseman said:

helpful tips on prep , like if i need to strip it to bare metal or not and what colors to use? As well as how to mix the paint with hardener and clear coat.

:WRS:        There are several old threads on this site covering painting. Do a search on this site and you will find lots of good threads to read.  http://www.wheelhorseforum.com/forum/45-restorations-modifications-customizations/

Here are a couple to start off with.

 If you plan to use a hardener follow the manufacturer's instructions and be sure you have a good respirator that is designed to be used with the product. IH red is the color of choice for most of us.

 

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1 hour ago, roadapples said:

Can't answer your questions, but I would love to have any of my :wh:'s look as good as the one in your first picture...

I think I just got lucky and found a good one! It's even original paint! 

41 minutes ago, 953 nut said:

 

:WRS:        There are several old threads on this site covering painting. Do a search on this site and you will find lots of good threads to read.  http://www.wheelhorseforum.com/forum/45-restorations-modifications-customizations/

Here are a couple to start off with.

 If you plan to use a hardener follow the manufacturer's instructions and be sure you have a good respirator that is designed to be used with the product. IH red is the color of choice for most of us.

 

thank you! I am new to this site and still trying to find my way but it seems to be very beneficial! I got lucky and found a pretty good raider despite the broken piston and rod, but the sheet metal is all In very good condition and wNt to do my best to make sure that I don't ruin it with a bad paint job! 

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If you have any attachments - that's the place to start when learning to paint . There's an amazing amount of stuff to learn to get it right and some of the most dangerous chemicals known to man are used in painting - a good quality respirator should always be the first purchase . Single stage enamel with hardener will be about as good as anything - it will last a very long time if done properly with the right combination of supplies . Rattle cans will work , but getting good wet coat results is tough and it will not produce as durable of a finish as single stage enamel in either an automotive or implement quality paint . The amount of solids in commercial paints allows you to properly reduce/thin it for spraying to get that super wet shine - cheap paint will not allow that and just want to run . Base/clear urethane will look as good as the newer cars but it comes at a much higher cost and involves a lot more skill - not to mention more extra costs in proper bases/prep work . Starting from bare metal is the best choice by either blasting the parts to bare or having them dipped - most either find someone to blast parts or do it themselves if they have the compressor up to the task . Getting rid of the old paint , corrosion and metal mill scale (pickling) gives the new finish a much better surface to bond than how these things were painted the first time - which was right over the top of mill scale . That oily layer of carbon is meant to protect the roller system used to form the metal and leave a protective coating - it is not a very good practice to paint over it , the stuff must be removed .

 

You need to first take a look at what you have for equipment - good compressor , dryers/filters , and especially a very clean and dust free place to do the painting . I've shot tractors outdoors in the open , spent the time to sand out the bugs and buff it out - that is no fun and neither is dealing with the overspray . Best results were from a cheap booth built from 1x2 & 1x3 wood with plastic sheeting - but in the sun that created it's own challenges . Also , start researching the total cost when starting out - you're probably looking at over $500 to invest if you already have a decent air compressor . There are airless units or self-contained systems that don't require it , but they also cost the price of a good late model used car if you want good results . Used equipment purchased requires the knowledge to be able to repair it - so keep that in mind . I've got several older paint guns - all required at least some new parts and a lot of cleaning work to make them usable . Some of the cheaper guns work just fine - they are just more sensitive to mix ratio and tip size . If you want to go HVLP - that can be a whole different ball game and requires a lot more understanding of setup and proper mixing to get good results . Just need to take the time to research and learn - the threads here if you search will help a lot as well as YouTube videos and such info on the web . If you have any buddies that work in Auto Body repair/paint -  they can be a great resource in learning as this is a learned skill set . Either way , make sure you read and understand warnings associated with the chemicals - this stuff is not joke and can kill you if you don't respect it .

 

Sarge

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11 hours ago, Sarge said:

If you have any attachments - that's the place to start when learning to paint . There's an amazing amount of stuff to learn to get it right and some of the most dangerous chemicals known to man are used in painting - a good quality respirator should always be the first purchase . Single stage enamel with hardener will be about as good as anything - it will last a very long time if done properly with the right combination of supplies . Rattle cans will work , but getting good wet coat results is tough and it will not produce as durable of a finish as single stage enamel in either an automotive or implement quality paint . The amount of solids in commercial paints allows you to properly reduce/thin it for spraying to get that super wet shine - cheap paint will not allow that and just want to run . Base/clear urethane will look as good as the newer cars but it comes at a much higher cost and involves a lot more skill - not to mention more extra costs in proper bases/prep work . Starting from bare metal is the best choice by either blasting the parts to bare or having them dipped - most either find someone to blast parts or do it themselves if they have the compressor up to the task . Getting rid of the old paint , corrosion and metal mill scale (pickling) gives the new finish a much better surface to bond than how these things were painted the first time - which was right over the top of mill scale . That oily layer of carbon is meant to protect the roller system used to form the metal and leave a protective coating - it is not a very good practice to paint over it , the stuff must be removed .

 

You need to first take a look at what you have for equipment - good compressor , dryers/filters , and especially a very clean and dust free place to do the painting . I've shot tractors outdoors in the open , spent the time to sand out the bugs and buff it out - that is no fun and neither is dealing with the overspray . Best results were from a cheap booth built from 1x2 & 1x3 wood with plastic sheeting - but in the sun that created it's own challenges . Also , start researching the total cost when starting out - you're probably looking at over $500 to invest if you already have a decent air compressor . There are airless units or self-contained systems that don't require it , but they also cost the price of a good late model used car if you want good results . Used equipment purchased requires the knowledge to be able to repair it - so keep that in mind . I've got several older paint guns - all required at least some new parts and a lot of cleaning work to make them usable . Some of the cheaper guns work just fine - they are just more sensitive to mix ratio and tip size . If you want to go HVLP - that can be a whole different ball game and requires a lot more understanding of setup and proper mixing to get good results . Just need to take the time to research and learn - the threads here if you search will help a lot as well as YouTube videos and such info on the web . If you have any buddies that work in Auto Body repair/paint -  they can be a great resource in learning as this is a learned skill set . Either way , make sure you read and understand warnings associated with the chemicals - this stuff is not joke and can kill you if you don't respect it .

 

Sarge

Thank you sarge ! That was very useful! I have painted a couple boats with HVLP but never a finish that needs to shine! So this is where my questions come. I like your idea on starting with implements. I have a blade that could definitely use a new coat of fresh paint! Fortunately for me I do have a good understanding on harsh chemicals as I am a maintenance mechanic/machinist in a pharmaceutical plant! Made me grin a little bit but very very true! Some of the chemicals we deal with are out of this world, cyanide and phosgene just to name a few! And it's unreal the amount of harsh chemicals that are in our daily household products! Thank you for the tips, very helpful! 

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There were some odd incidents of welders dying a few years ago from using chlorinated brake cleaner to prep metals for tig welding - it left enough wet traces of chlorine in the joints of the metal to be welded that when burned in the argon envelope it created a concentrated puff of phosgene gas . With the welder standing over the weld and a hood the effects hit pretty quickly , starting with a very tired feeling . A few went and laid down for a short bit - that was the end of those guys . Took a lot of investigation to figure out how an otherwise healthy person was suddenly dead - since tig cannot tolerate any real air ventilation/flow that can interrupt gas shielding it put them in a badly concentrated situation and there were a lot of bulletins on the net about it . I've always used either acetone or non-chlorinated cleaners and allow the extra time and even using compressed air to finish removing any traces of chemical . The perfect weld isn't worth your life for sure....

 

Getting a highly wet sheen appearance isn't easy . It's all about how fast the paint flashes off it's solvents . If it flashes too fast it can actually have a very rough surface to the point of almost a dusty powder . Too slow - it not only doesn't want to dry but can run a lot easier . Different temperatures/humidity/sunlight all have a serious effect on flash time - adding hardeners will change it even further . Most times I have to run high temperature reducers on single stage enamels that have added hardeners - this allows the paint to "set" but not flash off completely , which allows it to flow out better and produce a much better initial shine . I do not buff most tractor jobs but if you plan on it make sure you can build enough layers properly to support buffing - you will remove some of it with the compound in a hurry . If you don't have a lot of experience you'll have to find either an auto parts store that has someone heavily trained/experienced in selling paint/chemicals or find an auto body supply that will sell to the public as many will not allow that - too much liability . Local and State laws where you live will dictate what you can buy as well - forget shipping any of this stuff with the exception of some of the paint itself . I've had some luck with Rustoleum Implement/Industrial paint in gallons and quarts - just painted my utility trailer a few weeks ago in their IH red - it is a fairly high solids paint for what you pay , sale price at TSC was $29.99/gal . The Majic hardener was around $16/can with one can being enough for that gallon . Mix hardener at it's mix ration prior to adding the reducer - for air spraying you'll have to go well past their recommended 10% limit on reducer/thinners . Many places that sell auto body supplies will carry either the regular ($$$$) PPG or the Shop Line paints and some of the best stuff I've used for the buck is the Western Auto single stage enamel - results were excellent . Off the shelf common enamels are getting very low on solids so it's tough to get a true color without quite a few coats and you have to adhere to re-coat time windows with it very closely - or risk having it boil the underlying layers . Allowing each coat to cure overnight and going over each coat with either 600+ wet sanding or a Scotch Brite pad to promote adhesion and shine quality goes a long way too .

 

Took a gallon and 3/4 of IH Rustoleum Red Implement paint to get this trailer done -

 

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59e209bf4f99c_20170916_0941591.jpg.116d33c4407b72659f9e197720302143.jpg

 

A buddy brought his mid size Kubota over yesterday and I rigged straps/chain to pick it off the jack stands to set it back on terra firma - no damage to the paint due to the added hardener . In another month or so , it will be fully cured and tough as nails .

 

Sarge

 

 

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