6 speed swap

[Pullstart 59,775]

Sweet, glad to help a bit

[857lover 284]

59 minutes ago, Pullstart said:

Sweet, glad to help a bit

i couldn’t get the belt on so we will see tomorrow it should be a 1/2.   70in belt because the pulley in trans is the same size as the one that came off

[ebinmaine 63,243]

Certainly should have been a direct swap. 

 

Have you verified the actual measured length of the old belt ?

 

Were you having any shifting issues?

 

 

[857lover 284]

1 hour ago, ebinmaine said:

Certainly should have been a direct swap. 

 

Have you verified the actual measured length of the old belt ?

 

Were you having any shifting issues?

 

 

no i wasn’t having any shifting issues 

[roadapples 6,981]

4 hours ago, 857lover said:

i couldn’t get the belt on so we will see tomorrow it should be a 1/2.   70in belt because the pulley in trans is the same size as the one that came off

May be wrong, but I think most drive belts are 5/8"

[kpinnc 10,812]

I may have missed it, but how can you tell this is a limited slip tranny from the pics? I know how to tell by spinning the wheels. I just didn't see anything about what model it was from, and I didn't know you could tell from the exterior. 

[ebinmaine 63,243]

4 hours ago, roadapples said:

May be wrong, but I think most drive belts are 5/8

 

Up to 1967 they were 1/2". 

'68 and newer was 5/8". 

 

6 hours ago, 857lover said:

no i wasn’t having any shifting issues 

Did you verify the actual measured length of the old belt ?

 

Did you use the old transmission pulley?

 

Is the idler pulley arm working properly and giving a full swing?

 

Are you removing the idler pulley to install or trying to slide the belt over all 3 pulleys?

 

 

2 hours ago, kpinnc said:

I may have missed it, but how can you tell this is a limited slip tranny from the pics? I know how to tell by spinning the wheels. I just didn't see anything about what model it was from, and I didn't know you could tell from the exterior. 

 

Some of us can just tell things and others can't. It's ok. Doesn't make you a lesser person.  😂

 

Or.....

 

ALL 6 speeds have Limited Slip Differential.  

 

 

 

6 speeds were made from '67-'69, maybe '70??  

There were certain automatics that had LS Diffs back then too. 

I don't know how to tell which hydros.  My 1970 Charger Hydro was LSD. 

I saved that differential to put in the 1975 C160 Automatic. 

 

[Pullstart 59,775]

5 hours ago, kpinnc said:

I may have missed it, but how can you tell this is a limited slip tranny from the pics? I know how to tell by spinning the wheels. I just didn't see anything about what model it was from, and I didn't know you could tell from the exterior. 

 

2 hours ago, ebinmaine said:

Some of us can just tell things and others can't. It's ok. Doesn't make you a lesser person.  😂

 

 

That’s funny stuff there!

 

The high/low shifter and the brake drum location tell you it’s a six speed.  They also came with the little short pipe nipple and coupler on the fill hole to allow for 2 qts, but that could be added to any transmission.  Then like EB said, all 6 speeds had lsd’s.

[857lover 284]

8 hours ago, ebinmaine said:

 

Up to 1967 they were 1/2". 

'68 and newer was 5/8". 

 

Did you verify the actual measured length of the old belt ?

 

Did you use the old transmission pulley?

 

Is the idler pulley arm working properly and giving a full swing?

 

Are you removing the idler pulley to install or trying to slide the belt over all 3 pulleys?

 

 

 

Some of us can just tell things and others can't. It's ok. Doesn't make you a lesser person.  😂

 

Or.....

 

ALL 6 speeds have Limited Slip Differential.  

 

 

 

6 speeds were made from '67-'69, maybe '70??  

There were certain automatics that had LS Diffs back then too. 

I don't know how to tell which hydros.  My 1970 Charger Hydro was LSD. 

I saved that differential to put in the 1975 C160 Automatic. 

 

i got the belt on trying to figure out the belt cover 

[cafoose 3,148]

6 hours ago, Pullstart said:

The high/low shifter and the brake drum location tell you it’s a six speed.  They also came with the little short pipe nipple and coupler on the fill hole to allow for 2 qts, but that could be added to any transmission.  Then like EB said, all 6 speeds had lsd’s.

showing brake drum location and pipe nipple? also length of nipple? always wondered myself how to tell the difference

[stevasaurus 22,235]

 

The picture was the 1st post.  The hi/low range shifter is the 1st thing to look for.  Then you look to see where the brake drum is mounted (in this case the 11/44 tooth or mushroom gear).  That is really all you need to know...it is a 10 pinion LS.  The 1" extension on the fill plug is the clincher.  Not all 6 speeds have that extension, but not one 8 pinion does.  So it is ,for sure, a #5060 or a #5071.  The #5073 has the brake drum on the cluster gear shaft and a dip stick.  Only real way to tell on that one is to count the bolts on the differential (5).  The difference between #5060 & #5071...#5060 has aluminum end plates on the differential, the #5071 has steel end plates.  

[wallfish 15,937]

19 minutes ago, stevasaurus said:

(in this case the 11/44 tooth or mushroom gear)

Hey Steve

I picked up one of these trans that is intended for use on a snow pusher. BUT, I can spin the axles in different directions by hand by just the hubs. It'll click but shouldn't that resistance be much more difficult to do? Like it needs a new spring for the pinions?

[ebinmaine 63,243]

Just now, wallfish said:

Hey Steve

I picked up one of these trans that is intended for use on a snow pusher. BUT, I can spin the axles in different directions by hand by just the hubs. It'll click but shouldn't that resistance be much more difficult to do? Like it needs a new spring for the pinions?

 

Likely a new spring is in order John. 

I've had one here that spun easily before I put a new spring in.   

 

I don't know if an 8 pinion differential could be swapped in by a PO.   

[stevasaurus 22,235]

@wallfish  it is supposed to act like a real differential with out much pressure.  Remember, the Limited Slip only works when going in a straight line.  I'm not sure this idea that the trans jumps and snaps and clicks is accurate when turning one wheel while holding the other.  It has been said, one should turn the one wheel SLOWLY and the other wheel should turn in the same direction...seems turning the one wheel faster makes it act like a real differential.  Another test, put the front of your tractor against a fence post and use 1st gear to see if both wheels turn.  If this doesn't work, it would be a weak or broken spring.  Lowell at WH parts & more has new ones available now.  

[Horse Newbie 6,877]

23 hours ago, Pullstart said:

You’ll get it!  Make sure the shift forks are lined up before you start.  [ ] they should make a square when they are in the right spot for the shifter to go.

I was gonna say that… honest I was…

23 hours ago, Pullstart said:

loosen the dog point a smidge?

 I was gonna say that… honest I was…

[kpinnc 10,812]

13 hours ago, ebinmaine said:

ALL 6 speeds have Limited Slip Differential.  

 

 

Given the incorrect nature of calling all trannies with hi/lo range either 6 or 8 speed, that remark is misleading. Not trying to be a pain, just hoping to learn something.

 

To go back to the original question- without knowing what the tranny came from (if you do, then my apologies), how can you tell from the picture which one it is? Externally, the only way I know to distinguish the two is by rotating one hub to see which way the opposite turns. Same direction- 10 pinion limited slip differential. Opposite turn, 8 pinion heavy differential.

 

I assume the lack of a top dipstick and the location of the fill tube are implying an older machine, but my 867 tranny was replaced with an 8 pinion differential. It looks identical to the picture on this thread.

 

4 hours ago, 857lover said:

Some of us can just tell things and others can't. It's ok. Doesn't make you a lesser person.  😂

 

Gotta go drink a beer to cool the burn. I'm telling my wife that it's Eb's fault! 

Edited March 11, 2022 by kpinnc

[ebinmaine 63,243]

10 minutes ago, kpinnc said:

Given the incorrect nature of calling all trannies with hi/lo range either 6 or 8 speed, that remark is misleading. Not trying to be a pain, just hoping to learn something

So as to not cause accidental learning, how is that misleading?

[kpinnc 10,812]

27 minutes ago, ebinmaine said:

So as to not cause accidental learning, how is that misleading?

 

Ok, you asked...

 

I'm not saying you are wrong, because technically what Wheel Horse originally coined "6 speed" in 1967 was in fact equipped with the early 10 pinion limited slip differential. They were only produced into 1972 (5 years) as far as I can tell. From 1973 until 2007 (34 years) the "heavy duty" hi/lo transmissions used 8 pinion differentials without limited slip.  I'm sure there may have been exceptions, but the vast majority of transmissions did not have limited slip.

 

But some refer to any tranny with hi/lo as "6 speed", even if it has the 8 pinion diff. Given how often Wheel Horse broke thier own naming standards, it's not difficult to confuse the two. Going off the decal on the hood isn't enough. Please understand, where I live often finds tractors that have been cannibalized with different engines or trannies or sheetmetal. An original machine is a rare find- particularly one from before the 80s.

 

So I'm asking from the picture, how did you know it wasn't an 8-speed?

 

 

Edited March 11, 2022 by kpinnc

[kpinnc 10,812]

And the tranny in the pic below has no dipstick on top.

 

It is NOT limited slip. It has an 8- pinion diff. The only way to tell is to turn one wheel to see what the opposite does in response.

[ebinmaine 63,243]

4 minutes ago, kpinnc said:

So I'm asking from the picture, how did you know it wasn't an 8-speed?

 

Because of the position of the brake drum.  

Round knobs. (usually)

Extension on the fill plug.  

 

 

 

7 minutes ago, kpinnc said:

But some refer to any tranny with hi/lo as "6 speed", even if it has the 8 pinion diff

TBH I'd forgotten about that. 

 

I've seen quite a few folks incorrectly use the term "6 speed"  for any transmission that literally has them. 

 

I was referring to Wheelhorse specifics though.  

 

 

[pfrederi 17,163]

and you never know if the differential was replaced with a 8 pinion.  WH went to a repair  (of 10 pinions) by replacement with 8 pinion.  there is a TSB on that somewhere here.

[kpinnc 10,812]

8 minutes ago, pfrederi said:

and you never know if the differential was replaced with a 8 pinion.  WH went to a repair  (of 10 pinions) by replacement with 8 pinion.  there is a TSB on that somewhere here.

 

I've heard of that too.

 

20 minutes ago, ebinmaine said:

Because of the position of the brake drum.  

 

I thought that was different between 4 speeds and anything with hi/lo? 6 or 8 shouldn't matter...

[ebinmaine 63,243]

4 minutes ago, kpinnc said:

thought that was different between 4 speeds and anything with hi/lo? 6 or 8 shouldn't matter...

You're close. 

 

3 and 6 speeds are alike there. 

 

4 and 8 speeds as well.  

 

 

[wallfish 15,937]

2 hours ago, stevasaurus said:

Another test, put the front of your tractor against a fence post and use 1st gear to see if both wheels turn

It's not on a tractor yet which is why I asked. But I'll probably be going through it anyway and those springs aren't expensive. Probably just change it anyway

[stevasaurus 22,235]

@kpinnc  It's all about this Manual and the Table of Contents.

 

Section I is about the 3 piece transmissions  #5003 & #5010, brake drum is on the mushroom gear.

Section II is about the 2 piece, 3 Speeds & the Heavy Duty transmissions...key point...the brake drum is located on the 10/44 tooth Mushroom gear.

Section III is about the 6 Speeds.  All 6 Speed transmissions were 10 pinion Limited Slip from the factory and...key point...brake drum is on the 11/44 Mushroom gear.  Yes, there was a Service Bulletin that was about getting rid of the 10 pinion differential and replacing it with an 8 pinion differential.

Now here is the difference...

Section IV is about the 4 Speeds...key point...brake drum is on the Cluster Gear Shaft.

Section V is about the 8 Speeds...key point...brake drum is on the cluster Gear Shaft.

The 8 Speed transmissions can be a 4 pinion differential with 1" axles. (110996)  They can be an 8 pinion differential with 1 1/8" axles. (5091)  They can also be a 10 pinion Limited Slip differential with 1 1/8" axles. (5073)  ALL SECTION V   8 SPEEDS HAVE THE BRAKE DRUM ON THE CLUSTER GEAR SHAFT.