97 416H no spark

[Cee245 823]

Hi! I recently purchased a Harley coil for my P216g Onan on my 416h. My old one tested bad and it was backfiring before I got it in the shed. Hasn't been running good lately. 

 

How do I tell which is positive on the new coil? There are no markings! To top it off, I can't remember which wire goes where.

There are 2 black(one from a condenser?), a red, a yellow that I see.  I've looked at a schematic but I can't tell where they go. 

 

I know the spark plug wires don't matter which post they are attached to. 

 

Trying to get it running before the storm tonight!

Edited February 3, 2022 by Cee245
Changed title since it's become bigger than fist thought

[WHX?? 51,370]

38 minutes ago, Cee245 said:

How do I tell which is positive on the new coil?

The coil posts are not polarity sensitive as long as one sees 12 volts from the key switch and the other one sees the trigger module.  To find out what wire is what is going to be a problem. You can easily find out which one is +12v by turning on the key and using a test light or DMM. The other wires go to ??? Might have to trace them out but one at least has to go to a trigger module.

Hind sight 20/20 I know but you should have marked the wires before taking off the old coil. The wires should just drop on the new coil the same has the old one. 

 

Here it shows a yellow +12v  wire from the kill relay to the coil but thats it. The yellow may change colors in the nine pin so be careful. These are from a '97 520 but should be the same?

 

 

 

This one doesn't help much more 

Edited February 2, 2022 by WHX??

[Cee245 823]

I'm showing 12v at the yellow wire with key on. I'm working on it now. Will update ..

[WHX?? 51,370]

Heres another showing a points setup & just guessing the two blacks may be points and condensor??? 

[Cee245 823]

It does not have a points system. It's a 97. I have a points system on my 86 417a. 

[lynnmor 7,719]

There are a pair of wires, usually red & white in a jacket, coming up from the trigger coil.  The white wire goes to one terminal, all the rest go to the other.

[WHX?? 51,370]

Service manual shows a red & black with the red being connected to +12v. 

[Cee245 823]

Thanks. Still no spark.  It does spark when I turn the key to off position for some reason, but no spark when turning over. 

 

It started running rough and almost shutting down.  I limped it to shed and here's where I'm at.  I'm thinking the old coil may be good... either way, no spark at plugs. 

Edited February 2, 2022 by Cee245

[WHX?? 51,370]

This might help troubleshoot. 

Toro83-presMisc _0019 Onan Electrical Troubleshooting.pdf

[lynnmor 7,719]

Download the Onan Service Manual and do the troubleshooting starting on page 8-1.

[WHX?? 51,370]

Here you go Cee .....oops Lynn is faster. 

6918.pdf

Edited February 2, 2022 by WHX??

[Cee245 823]

Thanks for the link guys!

 

I started at 8.1 per aforementioned suggestion. 

 

So far I've found that the Coil is good and I have it hooked up correctly. Thanks @WHX?? @lynnmorfor the suggestions 

 

I have good spark when running a lead from + on battery to + on coil. 

 

I'm going to go over wiring and clean up/ repair any bad connections.  

 

Nothing jumps out so far. I've taken the fun tin off the Onan so things are easier to see now. 

 

The fuses all 3 look fine and I did test the fuse connections?  I'll call them...  The meter reads about 12v when I have the key on and fuses removed, so that wiring should be OK I think. 

 

I'll look over other wiring and update 

 

 

[Cee245 823]

I looked over wiring etc. It looks good. 

 

In the picture, I did step 5.

My meter read about 0.88 and did NOT move when rotating slowly by hand. 

 

It says replace ignition module. Isn't that the thing under the flywheel?  

 

Side note, thankfully I have my 417 to take care of this storm while the 416 is down.

Edited February 3, 2022 by Cee245
Add pic

[lynnmor 7,719]

1 hour ago, Cee245 said:

I looked over wiring etc. It looks good. 

 

In the picture, I did step 5.

My meter read about 0.88 and did NOT move when rotating slowly by hand. 

 

It says replace ignition module. Isn't that the thing under the flywheel?  

 

Side note, thankfully I have my 417 to take care of this storm while the 416 is down.

 

Yes, that's the thing under the flywheel.  Double check your steps to be sure that is the problem, pulling the flywheel can be troublesome. The ignition modules are expensive and used ones might have you doing a lot of work with poor results. Also check the ring that contains the magnets, a screwdriver should stick to it in two places, if it is black in color replace it with a new gray one, the older black ones have a higher failure rate. onanparts.com puts together a kit that provides the parts to do it right.  I made a puller for the flywheel so I could use all four bolts, all you need is a steel plate about 3/8" thick with holes for the four bolts and a threaded hole in the center.

 

[Cee245 823]

Thanks @lynnmor. I used a Harbor Freight puller and got it off. I'm cleaning everything up and just placed an order for the ignition module and ring. The ring looks OK, but I'm in there now so I'll replace it with a new one since it's affordable.   

I also read about making sure the insulator is installed on the module. This is a big job, but I'm moving along well enough.  

 

Now I wait for the parts and I'll update my results 

[Cee245 823]

Awaiting the ignition module. The little gray ignition rotor came though. 

[lynnmor 7,719]

29 minutes ago, Cee245 said:

Awaiting the ignition module. The little gray ignition rotor came though. 

 

 

Great, now while you are waiting clean all those fins including the bottom of the engine.  The fins on the oil pan help to cool the oil.  I do it where it can be sprayed with Gunk and hosed out.

[Cee245 823]

Got things all cleaned up. It wasn't bad as I blow out after mowing regularly. Still was worth extra cleaning as the base fins were dirty. 

I got my ignition module today after a delay in shipping due to the weather last week... I have installed and tested spark to the plug and there is good spark now!

I still have to put it back together, but I'm back in business.

 

Thanks!

[lynnmor 7,719]

50 minutes ago, Cee245 said:

Got things all cleaned up. It wasn't bad as I blow out after mowing regularly. Still was worth extra cleaning as the base fins were dirty. 

I got my ignition module today after a delay in shipping due to the weather last week... I have installed and tested spark to the plug and there is good spark now!

I still have to put it back together, but I'm back in business.

 

Thanks!

Great!