SylvanLakeWH 28,307 #26 Posted January 26, 2022 (edited) I drew up two separate plans for consideration: Plan 1 ——— Plan 2 plan 1 can be built in 4-6 months, if supply chain issues addressed… cost = $14,234 plan 2 can be built in 2 minutes, if you can find matching mittens. Cost = $0 Notice added color benefits of plan 2… Toughen up boys and go with plan 2… Edited January 27, 2022 by SylvanLakeWH 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jeff-C175 7,206 #27 Posted January 26, 2022 (edited) 6 minutes ago, SylvanLakeWH said: Notice added color benefits of plan 2… Toughen up boys and go with plan 2… I'm going to add: Put all this crap on and you won't need heat, guaranteed. Edited January 26, 2022 by Jeff-C175 1 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Snoopy11 5,718 #28 Posted January 26, 2022 @Jeff-C175... you forgot the heated underwear... Don 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jeff-C175 7,206 #29 Posted January 26, 2022 2 minutes ago, Snoopy11 said: heated underwear Mrs. Google is a pervert. She only showed me images that I won't cut and paste here ! Oh... and the other thing... those packs of TOE WARMERS that go inside yer boots and the hand warmers in yer gloves! Yeah buddy... if me feets and fangers is warm I'm good to go. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Snoopy11 5,718 #30 Posted January 26, 2022 Just now, Jeff-C175 said: Mrs. Google is a pervert HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! Some of this images stick around... too... Don Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lee1977 7,185 #31 Posted January 26, 2022 4 minutes ago, SylvanLakeWH said: Toughen up boys and go with plan 2… You will get old too, if you live long enough. I was tough back 32 years ago, just can't take cool weather any more. I'm lucky enough I can just let snow melt in a couple of days. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wallfish 18,050 #32 Posted January 27, 2022 At some point I'll give it a go for the heater. There's plenty of room for it behind the seat. The expense of the parts is relatively low at about $100 - $150 so that's not really any deterrent at all. Available time is the problem! One thing I can say about the expense and doing some additional effort is, the guy down the street, his father was found dead a coupe years ago sitting in the cab on his older tractor loader while using a homemade heater directing heat into it from the engine. So the easy way isn't always the best way IMHO. Sometimes a little extra effort is worth it! I had a heat deflector similar to Ed's set up when the blower cab was on the 418-C that worked OK. Never really noticed any problems or head aches but always wondered, what if gases somehow got in it? Just a quick basic design of what the initial thought is. I'm sure it will be revised. Like that cap thingy has a port for a reservoir too. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jeff-C175 7,206 #33 Posted January 27, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, wallfish said: Never really noticed any problems or head aches but always wondered, what if gases somehow got in it? That was actually one of my first thoughts regarding using engine heat. I mean... you've got this exhaust pipe in close proximity to the engine and it simply MUST be drawing some of that exhaust across the engine for cooling. How can it not? 1 hour ago, wallfish said: Like that cap thingy has a port for a reservoir too. Yes, you would want to treat that exactly the same as you would with an automotive system. If you fill the system with glycol mix, the first time you run it you will get spewage out that little tube. If you direct that to the bottom of a reservoir, when the system cools again it will draw the coolant back into the system, and lather / rinse / repeat. By the way, those 'radiator cap thingys' come in all sorts of configurations. Take a look on ebay, that's where I saw most of them. If you do an image search using the image that Thor posted you will get a bunch of hits to click away on. Example: you really don't need that extra 'reservoir' at all if you connect the little hose barb to a recovery reservoir. You could probably easily make one of these as well. Cut the neck off a junk radiator and solder it onto a tee fitting. But that one above is only $19 so almost not worth it to try and save a nickel. Also, look at "Auxiliary Coolant Pumps" also. Example: Edited January 27, 2022 by Jeff-C175 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ed Kennell 41,772 #34 Posted January 27, 2022 9 hours ago, Jeff-C175 said: it simply MUST be drawing some of that exhaust across the engine for cooling. How can it not? Not saying an accident couldn't happen, but with the air flow from left to right and the exhaust exit at the upper right and the heat being collected at the lower right, it seems some laws of physics would have to be broken for the hot exhaust to travel back across the tractor and down to the Onan flywheel and be pumped across the rear cylinder into the cab. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jeff-C175 7,206 #35 Posted January 27, 2022 3 hours ago, Ed Kennell said: Not saying an accident couldn't happen, but with the air flow from left to right and the exhaust exit at the upper right and the heat being collected at the lower right, it seems some laws of physics would have to be broken for the hot exhaust to travel back across the tractor and down to the Onan flywheel and be pumped across the rear cylinder into the cab. And I'm pretty sure you still get a fair amount of fresh air since the cab isn't airtight. With my Kohlers, the exhaust discharge is on the same side and quite close to the flywheel screen. I'd have some concerns with that. But I don't have a cab so for me it's all academic! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ed Kennell 41,772 #36 Posted January 27, 2022 The exhaust location of a Kohler single would certainly allow the hot exhause to be pulled into the flywheel. Thinking about engine cooling, allowing the hot exhaust to be pulled across the engine is a poor design. Yes, I do keep the rear zippered opening open. The cab actually stays warmer and with less fogging by allowing the warm air to continually enter in the front and exit at the rear. The fogging problem would certainly need to be addressed with a closed loop liquid heat system in a closed cab. Might need to duct the heat exchanger fan inlet to bring in fresh air from outside the cab. I wonder how many VW owners took a dirt nap in thier Beetles. They did have a deadly design hot air system with the heat collector box surrounding the exhaust system. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jeff-C175 7,206 #37 Posted January 27, 2022 5 minutes ago, Ed Kennell said: how many VW owners took a dirt nap in thier Beetles. Yep, and those heater boxes rusted out. I bet that some "fell asleep at the wheel" crashes were because of that. I always drove mine with windows open for fresh air. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jeff-C175 7,206 #38 Posted January 27, 2022 8 minutes ago, Ed Kennell said: Kohler single Twins too! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WheelHorse520H 708 #39 Posted January 27, 2022 2 hours ago, Ed Kennell said: I wonder how many VW owners took a dirt nap in thier Beetles. They did have a deadly design hot air system with the heat collector box surrounding the exhaust system. 2 hours ago, Jeff-C175 said: Yep, and those heater boxes rusted out. I bet that some "fell asleep at the wheel" crashes were because of that. I always drove mine with windows open for fresh air. That’s why I have mine disconnected until I get new rust-free exchangers. Looks like you guys are getting some good ideas here. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wallfish 18,050 #40 Posted January 27, 2022 (edited) 10 hours ago, Ed Kennell said: it seems some laws of physics would have to be broken for the hot exhaust to travel back across the tractor and down to the Onan flywheel and be pumped across the rear cylinder into the cab. Or something as simple as a blown head gasket will do it Edited January 27, 2022 by wallfish 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wallfish 18,050 #42 Posted January 28, 2022 Here's another thought How warm does the hydraulic trans fluid get? Like using that oil running through a heater core with a fan instead of the glycol heated by a muffler. The return side is low pressure. Less complicated, less parts, fairly easy to tap into that line. Would probably need a pressure relief bypass just in case the core got clogged It could be done with the engine oil too but not sure cooling the engine temp is a great idea Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jeff-C175 7,206 #43 Posted January 28, 2022 (edited) 17 minutes ago, wallfish said: not sure cooling the engine temp Maybe not good to cool the hydro fluid too much either. Research needed... you would want to know how hot it was running and then come up with some idea of how much heat you could take out of it, and if that amount of heat is even enough to make any difference in the cab. I don't think you could get enough heat out to feel much of a difference. Even with the exhaust, running the copper tubes next to the muffler would probably be so inefficient that you would get much heat out. Think about it... you've got a heat exchanger in the cab with some amount of surface area and a fan blowing across it cooling the liquid that's passing through it. Then that cooled liquid goes back to the heat exchanger around the muffler to be reheated. Is that exchanger going to have enough surface area to heat that liquid back up again? Much study and experimentation needed. Edited January 28, 2022 by Jeff-C175 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lee1977 7,185 #44 Posted January 28, 2022 (edited) The problem on a Onan there isn't any room on the bottom the PTO engagement is jammed tight against the muffler. You couldn't rap tubing around all of the muffler. That ideal is probley not going to work on an Onan. Edited January 28, 2022 by Lee1977 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ed Kennell 41,772 #45 Posted January 28, 2022 On 1/27/2022 at 11:52 AM, Jeff-C175 said: Twins too! I only have one KT Jeff, but the exhaust discharge is at the top right front similar to an Onan. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ranger 1,798 #46 Posted January 28, 2022 (edited) How about a system attached to the cab that comes off with the cab when cab is removed. This complete with a stainless heat exchanger exhaust/muffler. Don’t some boats with inboard engines use a water cooled exhaust system? Using stainless should address any corrosion concerns. Edited January 28, 2022 by ranger Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ed Kennell 41,772 #47 Posted January 28, 2022 25 minutes ago, ranger said: inboard engines use a water cooled Most modern inboard engiines use a closed system just like your automobile. The only difference is the air cooled radiator is replaced with a sea water cooled heat exchanger. Not sure how this would apply to an air cooled engine. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jeff-C175 7,206 #48 Posted January 28, 2022 4 hours ago, Ed Kennell said: one KT I confess to having never looked closely at the mufflers on other machines. On the C's that I have, the twin included, the muffler is vertical in front of the engine and exits front left, just below the flywheel screen. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jeff-C175 7,206 #49 Posted January 28, 2022 (edited) 3 hours ago, Ed Kennell said: how this would apply to an air cooled engine I think @ranger was thinking of the water jacket exhaust manifolds, using something like that to get the heat into the liquid for the hydronic heating system. Edited January 28, 2022 by Jeff-C175 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ed Kennell 41,772 #50 Posted January 28, 2022 3 minutes ago, Jeff-C175 said: I confess to having never looked closely at the mufflers on other machines. Same here Jeff. I am only familiar with my 417 and 520. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites