No spark

[BHunter 1,651]

20 minutes ago, JPWH said:

I would look at the grounding on the magneto. I just had this happen to me.

Jay

Hi Jay. 
I never would have thought about that. I’ll take a look. This is why I didn’t put the shroud back on yet. I wanted to make sure it runs good first. I still might put an external coil on and ditch the magneto. I like being able to easily access the ignition system if there is a problem. 

[953 nut 51,682]

2 hours ago, BHunter said:

it runs. Can’t rev it up or it dies.

Check the timing, if your points aren't set properly it won't run right. See page 8.2 of the Kohler Service Manual.

 

Edited January 10, 2022 by 953 nut

[BHunter 1,651]

16 minutes ago, 953 nut said:

Check the timing, if your points aren't set properly it won't run right. See page 8.2 of the Kohler Service Manual.

 

Thanks Richard. I tried to find the timing marks earlier today but there isn’t anything stamped on the flywheel. I turned the motor until the points were wide open and set them to .020. I guess that is the only way to set timing on this motor

Bob
 

[Crazy_Carl 254]

I just had a K241 where I couldn’t see the marks on the flywheel until I removed the cover and wire brushed the flywheel then I finally found them and marked them with a silver sharpie

[953 nut 51,682]

If your points weren't at .020" before you should be seeing a good deal of improvment.

Some times the punched "S" and "TDC" marks are not too prominent. If you have a piece of chalk that will fit into the timing hole in the shroud it may find the mark for you.

[BHunter 1,651]

1 minute ago, 953 nut said:

If your points weren't at .020" before you should be seeing a good deal of improvment.

Some times the punched "S" and "TDC" marks are not too prominent. If you have a piece of chalk that will fit into the timing hole in the shroud it may find the mark for you.

I have the shroud off and don’t see anything. I can see them really good on my k321 and other motors I’ve had  but nothing  on this k301. 
I set the points before trying to start it. I’m going to check them again to see if something changed and caused it to run bad. 

[BHunter 1,651]

There isn’t a sight hole in this shroud or in my 8hp with a Starter/Generator. There is a timing mark on the bearing plate but nothing on the flywheel. 

[oliver2-44 8,852]

Correct me on this if I'm wrong, but with the flywheel key at top dead center the line on the bearing plate should be aligned with your TDC mark on the flywheel.

 

[953 nut 51,682]

9 hours ago, oliver2-44 said:

with the flywheel key at top dead center the line on the bearing plate should be aligned with your TDC mark on the flywheel

Keyway on the output shaft too. 

[peter lena 8,067]

@BHunter glad you got it going !  you might set up a separate gallon jug of gas  and carb cleaning concentrate , hosed to your fuel pump , that would let you get some run time and  help clean out your set up , also make other adjustments and trials , your fuel tank could be filthy , running it on a visible clean fuel source , eliminates that . take advantage of run time , enhance grounding , look for other  wiring issues , bent cracked , corroded , frayed , use that clean gas time to zero in on issues . done this regularly on a  recent pick up . that helps set your  baseline maintenance  look see,  keep going . find and fix as you go , pete  

[pfrederi 17,147]

Don't ask why but the sight hole is on the rear of the shroud for S/G..There should be a corresponding mark on the rear of the bearing plate.

[WHX?? 46,774]

15 hours ago, BHunter said:

 I still might put an external coil on and ditch the magneto. I like being able to easily access the ignition system if there is a problem.

That gets my vote Bob. 

From your vid sounds like she may be starving for fuel. Have you cleaned the carb yet? 

15 minutes ago, pfrederi said:

the sight hole is on the rear of the shroud for S/G..

But given what was done to this motor all bets are off. Flywheel might have been changed or who knows. Set the points at .20 and tweak from there. 

Looking at your other pics looks like you still have the orginal battery to switch wires so if you got one of Lowell's 70 amp switches should be plug & play. 

 

Care full of the spinning flywheel with the shroud off Bob. No loose clothing ....don't want to see anything bad happen. 

Edited January 10, 2022 by WHX??

[WHX?? 46,774]

FYI Bob the engine dates to '85 and a quick look at the  master product list shows no mention of that spec # being used. In 85 anyway. '85 I also thought  would have a ring gear on the flywheel. Maybe that spec did not have electric start??? The mystery deepens. 

 

Did find this tho on a PDF search ....... no mention of that spec in a 301 that WH used but those all year lists have been know to be off. 

Edited January 10, 2022 by WHX??

[WHX?? 46,774]

'Nuts wiring diagram that I would use. I'll let him preach about good grounds! 

Edited January 10, 2022 by WHX??

[BHunter 1,651]

2 hours ago, peter lena said:

@BHunter glad you got it going !  you might set up a separate gallon jug of gas  and carb cleaning concentrate , hosed to your fuel pump , that would let you get some run time and  help clean out your set up , also make other adjustments and trials , your fuel tank could be filthy , running it on a visible clean fuel source , eliminates that . take advantage of run time , enhance grounding , look for other  wiring issues , bent cracked , corroded , frayed , use that clean gas time to zero in on issues . done this regularly on a  recent pick up . that helps set your  baseline maintenance  look see,  keep going . find and fix as you go , pete  

Hi Pete

Thanks for the tips. I’m definitely going to look everything over. I’m using a new gas tank and fresh gas. I ran the fuel pump before hooking the line to the carb to flush it out. I can’t get it to run longer than a minute. Trying to figure out the problem. This tractor has been a challenge but it’s rewarding when I see progress. 

[peter lena 8,067]

@BHunter glad you got it going !  you might set up a separate gallon jug of gas  and carb cleaning concentrate , hosed to your fuel pump , that would let you get some run time and  help clean out your set up , also make other adjustments and trials , your fuel tank could be filthy , running it on a visible clean fuel source , eliminates that . take advantage of run time , enhance grounding , look for other  wiring issues , bent cracked , corroded , frayed , use that clean gas time to zero in on issues . done this regularly on a  recent pick up . that helps set your  baseline maintenance  look see,  keep going . find and fix as you go , pete  

[peter lena 8,067]

@BHunter  glad you have anew tank , did you add a filter to that ? another thing,  that minute of running , makes me think of a condenser grounding issue , you have a ton of paint on that engine , try cleaning the electrical mounting areas down to steel and dielectric grease. you might also , add a battery cable from the battery ground cable,  bolt mount point ,to the engine / frame area , enhancing related grounding , just a  cable squeeze clamp , could be a quick try , nothing to loose . pete 

[pfrederi 17,147]

Spec 47176 Was a Service Engine.  No ring gear and no charging stator.  Just a mag coil and points... No starter just a rope no longer available

 

 

 

Edited January 10, 2022 by pfrederi

[BHunter 1,651]

1 hour ago, WHX?? said:

FYI Bob the engine dates to '85 and a quick look at the  master product list shows no mention of that spec # being used. In 85 anyway. '85 I also thought  would have a ring gear on the flywheel. Maybe that spec did not have electric start??? The mystery deepens. 

 

Did find this tho on a PDF search ....... no mention of that spec in a 301 that WH used but those all year lists have been know to be off. 

The search I found shows it to be a 1969. 

[WHX?? 46,774]

30 minutes ago, pfrederi said:

Spec 47176 Was a Service Engine. 

That explains alot! Where did you find that info???  ! 

[BHunter 1,651]

1 hour ago, WHX?? said:

'Nuts wiring diagram that I would use. I'll let him preach about good grounds! 

I agree. I’m going to use Nuts’ diagram and start from scratch. 

[pfrederi 17,147]

53 minutes ago, WHX?? said:

That explains alot! Where did you find that info???  ! 

 Kohler"s web site for parts....

[BHunter 1,651]

3 hours ago, peter lena said:

@BHunter  glad you have anew tank , did you add a filter to that ? another thing,  that minute of running , makes me think of a condenser grounding issue , you have a ton of paint on that engine , try cleaning the electrical mounting areas down to steel and dielectric grease. you might also , add a battery cable from the battery ground cable,  bolt mount point ,to the engine / frame area , enhancing related grounding , just a  cable squeeze clamp , could be a quick try , nothing to loose . pete 

Yes, I have a new filter on it . I’m using the old condenser that came with it because multiple wires attach to it. I’m going to put my new one on and try to attach all the wires to the points. Just to see it If that helps. 
 

[peter lena 8,067]

@BHunter wonder what all those wires do , maybe you can look up the original hook up for that , probably very simple .hope you manage to get some run time , and go from there , pete

[BHunter 1,651]

1 hour ago, peter lena said:

@BHunter wonder what all those wires do , maybe you can look up the original hook up for that , probably very simple .hope you manage to get some run time , and go from there , pete

 

1 hour ago, peter lena said:

@BHunter wonder what all those wires do , maybe you can look up the original hook up for that , probably very simple .hope you manage to get some run time , and go from there , pete

One wire goes to the magneto , another goes to a kill switch and another goes to the points .
I’m going to work on the ground wires too. Hopefully it helps.