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Tuneup

Balance Gear Surgery

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Tuneup

So gang, it's Christmas time and my company has extended its forced vacation to two weeks, sucking 7 days of FTO from me. I've got all kinds of things to do for the wifey-poo but what the heck can I do for me?

I've got two K301s so may as well get out the surgical tools and do a b-gearectomy. The C-125 goes first. Restored that back in '17 and so she's got maybe 75 hours on her. It'll be rather painless and the youngster is visiting so can assist in getting that b-itch up onto the bench. She's already been moved to the garage and the old Kawi and its carb parts moved back to the shed while I search for tiny o-rings. Wish me luck and pics to come. Oh, there is no rattle BUT she's always had a minor knock I chalk-up to excessive end play (didn't measure it back then 'cause I'm bad but, dang!, will now).

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953 nut
42 minutes ago, Tuneup said:

Wish me luck and pics to come.

:handgestures-fingerscrossed:                                                     :wwp:

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Tuneup

Sun's up and the kid's Mustang needs that little clutch rattle addressed so, post this tasty cup of vacation coffee, it'll all start to happen later this morning. Dang coffee, too good to just put aside. All those fresh toll house cookies sitting on the counter. I've got 5 lbs to gain before the new year. Anyway, pic, yes! I'm thinking the gears will be fine but am super curious, given the recent threads on it.

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Tuneup

OK, maybe a little Kohler 'porn' for pre-Christmas fun. She sounds just fine. Running to warm the oil before draining...

 

I pulled the head and am, Christian confession here, ashamed of my rebuild. Didn't measure the cylinder and didn't have the dollars so honed and re-reinged. New piston and rod. The out of round is fairly severe. More pics on that later. I'm sending this block out.

 

 

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Tuneup

Got it on the bench...

 

Bench.jpg.8cdff1d020e3fabceaee492f3ae2a3b2.jpg

 

Pan looks just fine - no metal in the oil, needle bearings included.

Pan.jpg.3e8da17eae7a2474dc625c57b14bef21.jpg

 

Gears - either I'm really bad or play has increased but, frankly, base gear of .030+ is extreme. The upper - ouch!

Gears-1.jpg.2a50289fa3d9d089ac4ddf7fc3d098b8.jpg

 

Base gear looks fine. If it had a proper shimming... as Hawkeye said in MASH, "It was pink and perfect and I threw it in the scrap bucket."

Gears-2.jpg.f3f7b59b60c81fafe72d007e8e68c4e4.jpg

 

Little video of the upper gear. Doesn't seem quite right. Maybe a timely save?

 

More on my crappy rebuild in a few...

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WHX??

Yah I'd say a timely save for sure!:handgestures-thumbupright:

Are your Kerber solid mounts working out as well as mine? 

Edited by WHX??

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Tuneup

I do love those Kerber mounts. My engine had this odd vibration at an RPM just above idle that the fixed mounts, of course, got rid of. Customer service also excellent. HE was out of stock and kept me up to date without my asking.

 

The 2nd gear is out with the help of a drift and hammer. Looks just fine but what the heck was with the rocking? Worn shaft and needles?

 

1112291719_Gear2.jpg.7c72447b64e1a1f234552dafe53cd88f.jpg

 

Considering the state of the cylinder, I have to locate a bore service in this state next. Wondering if I can just bore it to K321 specs. I had heard that the base blocks were the same BUT do understand the thinning of the wall support. C'mon, is 1/16th off each side really that much? I'd do it right in the end, this time...

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Tuneup

OK, enough carnage for today - ever watch what they did to the house in The Money Pit? Poor little Wheel Horse.The former owner, Homer of Second Lex vintage, just might be sick. He moved to Missouri with his kids so doesn't have to see this. Down to the basement to watch Dr. Strange on the big screen with some freshly squeezed coffee.

 

Frame.jpg.d6dc0c1475cb604538476023e31fecbf.jpg

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squonk
49 minutes ago, Tuneup said:

I do love those Kerber mounts. My engine had this odd vibration at an RPM just above idle that the fixed mounts, of course, got rid of. Customer service also excellent. HE was out of stock and kept me up to date without my asking.

 

The 2nd gear is out with the help of a drift and hammer. Looks just fine but what the heck was with the rocking? Worn shaft and needles?

 

1112291719_Gear2.jpg.7c72447b64e1a1f234552dafe53cd88f.jpg

 

 C'mon, is 1/16th off each side really that much?

Figure a thousandth or 2 of of each roller, the bearing outer race and then the shaft, yes it's too much.

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Tuneup

So glad I got in there to see that and rescued this machine again. I love it too much to see it grenade and now it needs the professional touch so a shop can clean-up that cylinder. The 516 with its nicely refreshed 48 can handle the lawn next year.

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Tuneup

Major kudos go to the listers that keep the balance gear vulnerability front and center - THANK YOU! I would not have been concerned enough to actually pull things apart, otherwise.

 

Hey, would y'all like to see an out of round cylinder? This is what you tolerate when you're short on funds and just hone and re-ring. She didn't burn much oil but it was obvious once I pulled the head and looked down the cylinder to see the ring tops. Oops! I'll pull the piston and will use the latest cheater method to measure.

 

Head.jpg.0cac18cae28ae932f456141e4b88ef04.jpg

 

Block.jpg.32f02da6bdc93265a935b65a65f685b3.jpg

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pacer

Hey, dont beat your self up over this, I would bet there a a good hand full right here on the forum that have done similar ----- for instance, I raise MY hand!!

 

Back many yrs ago when I had had a wife & 2 small ones and a job that didnt pay nearly enough.... I bought a little Datsun truck (yes, Datsun, not Nissan!) and that thing drank oil like crazy- I wasnt really expecting that because it didnt smoke. So, I go into it, cylinders looked really good and little piston slop, so being broke, I got a set of rings/inserts/gaskets and put it together ..... Drove that thing for some 3-4 yrs and it would go couple k miles before adding oil. Later, one of the sons bought another Datsun with a similar situation, so - again - just ringed it and turned out fine. Any how, over the years I have done this several times and had good enough results that I have even done 3-4 WH's that way and at least stopped the misquito sprayer smoking.

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Handy Don

:text-yeahthat:

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ebinmaine

I s'pose probably I ought to tear into my 2 K341s at some point. 

 

I'll just be over here watching the festivities. 

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WheelhorseBob

Eric, if you do I would strongly suggest sending the cranks out for balance plates. After removing mine I now realize how much a K341 will vibrate without balance gears and a stock crank. Mine is a shaker so it’s bearable. I believe yours are solid and for me it would be too much for regular use.

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ebinmaine
1 hour ago, WheelhorseBob said:

Eric, if you do I would strongly suggest sending the cranks out for balance plates. After removing mine I now realize how much a K341 will vibrate without balance gears and a stock crank. Mine is a shaker so it’s bearable. I believe yours are solid and for me it would be too much for regular use.

Much appreciated. 

 

Seems to me I remember reading about a balance plate?

From a Cub place ...????

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WheelhorseBob
5 minutes ago, ebinmaine said:

Much appreciated. 

 

Seems to me I remember reading about a balance plate?

From a Cub place ...????

This.   https://www.kirkengines.com/downloads/BalancePlateInstructions.pdf
 

full disclosure I have never done this and have no experience with it. Knowing what I know now I may have done this. 

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Snoopy11

This, is an excellent thread! :grin:

 

Don

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Tuneup

Well gang, I hope everyone had a wonderful Christmas. As for me, got all the Kurt Schlichter books and the Robert Kennedy book so plenty of reading ahead. Youngest son installed a Raspberry Pi and Pi Hole so no ads on ROKU - yaaay!

 

So, the block is now bare and received the bore diameter measure treatment. Max out of round measured on front is .0025 (gap max of .008) so that's actually good! I'll check 90° to that but will likely get it bored anyway to clean things up. I'd like to have the cam ground for better lift. Have to locate someone to do that. Anyway, it's not really bad!

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ebinmaine
3 hours ago, Tuneup said:

have the cam ground

@Greentored Scott has mentioned that. Not sure if he does it at his shop or could refer you to a shop. 

 

Keep me posted on what you do there please. 

 

 

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Greentored
17 hours ago, ebinmaine said:

@Greentored Scott has mentioned that. Not sure if he does it at his shop or could refer you to a shop. 

 

Keep me posted on what you do there please. 

 

 

I did build a fixture and grind my own cam for Hoss, but it was VERY time consuming, and although its still running great I dont know about its long term dependability as far as eating a lobe or a lifter.

@Tuneup take a peek at Lakota Racing- he offers (or at least did) a mild, stock class budget pulling grind thats supposed to be a real strong 4000rpm-down grunt cam! 

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Tuneup

Yee Ha! Thanks! I 'think' I found a shop to handle the bore. They say they can fix anything but that might just be a fantastic knowledge about recent MTD products. A bare cast iron Kohler block may confuse and I don't want them turning it into a lump. Anyway, I'll call later this week. Will definitely look at that cam option. Block is now completely bare and clean - ready for action!

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ebinmaine
1 hour ago, Tuneup said:

Will definitely look at that cam option

Are you milling extra off the head for increased compression?

 

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Tuneup

I'll do it as always but for a validation that the head is actually flat on the sealing surface and as clean as can be. The local NAPA gave me the number of a local guy who does good work. Bonus that he lives up the road. I'll give him a ring today. No signage or storefront. Just a guy with a garage and a reputation.

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