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formariz

How is it intended to be used?

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formariz

Pretty obvious that this is an offset ratchet drilling device. However ordinarily they have on top a large wood pad such as a brace to apply pressure and hold it correctly. As one can see that is not the case with this one. It can be used like a regular one, however It has a rather special function and way of being used. Not a lot of people are familiar with it. Can anyone describe why it is made like this and how it is designed to work?

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Pullstart

I’ll guess the pointy end gets a wood backer, but I’m just here to learn!

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Handy Don

A doweling jig? Align an existing hole using the non-bit end and then drill the opposing hole with the bit end.

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echris

Assuming the pointy end can be lengthened or shortened, I'd say it's for drilling in between two stationary pieces of wood, as in between to studs in a wall. 

Install the bit, place it against the work piece, extend that back pointy part to the opposite work piece for support. As you drill the hole, continue to adjust the back piece to maintain pressure.

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formariz
3 minutes ago, echris said:

Assuming the pointy end can be lengthened or shortened, I'd say it's for drilling in between two stationary pieces of wood, as in between to studs in a wall. 

Install the bit, place it against the work piece, extend that back pointy part to the opposite work piece for support. As you drill the hole, continue to adjust the back piece to maintain pressure.

That’s not it but there is a part of it in there.

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echris
16 minutes ago, formariz said:

That’s not it but there is a part of it in there.

Cryptic. I like it! :lol:

Does the opposite end of the chuck extend and retract? Kinda looks that way because of the knurling. Or is the knurling just for spinning the bit by hand?
Is the pointy end a live center? Connected to the chuck? Or not connected to the chuck?

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echris

@formariz Let's play 40 questions.

 

As in; I ask you 40 questions and still don't get it right. 

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echris

This is what I think that is. Only you have a much smaller version. 

 

 

 

Edited by echris
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formariz


 

1 minute ago, echris said:

Cryptic. I like it! :lol:

Does the opposite end of the chuck extend and retract? Kinda looks that way because of the knurling. Or is the knurling just for spinning the bit by hand?
Is the pointy end a live center? Connected to the chuck? Or not connected to the chuck?

Opposite end extends and retracts. 
 As far as pointy end goes calling it a live center is not really correct. Probably more of a dead center . Not connected to chuck.  Knurled section can be rotated clockwise tight to bottom allowing it to be then used to rotate chuck by hand such as when using it to start a screw. That is not however it’s actual main purpose. 
 

 

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echris

To me, it looks like the simplest form of a drill press. Watch a minute or two of the video above. There's an example of what I think it is, only used on a steam engine.

From an engine lathe-man's perspective, (I'm not a lathe-man, I just have (A REALLY OLD!) one LOL) I'd call a dead center a pointy piece of metal in my tail stock.
A live center would be a pointy piece of metal in my tailstock with a bearing in it for the spinny part. :D

Edited by echris

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formariz

I guess one could indeed call it a simple form of a drill press. How does it work is the question. 

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formariz
58 minutes ago, echris said:

There's an example of what I think it is, only used on a steam engine.

Need to watch it a bit more than a minute or two  but essentially that is the idea. However, this one is very small . Parts being drilled would also be small. That setup although possible would not be practical. There would also be other tools more practical to drill items with rather than this one. Where this one would excel is in awkward hard to reach areas such as overhead drilling. 
We still not quite there.
 

Edited by formariz

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Pullstart

Is it a hole transfer tool?  Like a doweling jig of sorts?

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formariz
4 hours ago, Pullstart said:

Is it a hole transfer tool?  Like a doweling jig of sorts?

No it is strictly a drilling tool. It can also be used as a screwdriver like a brace can . Ideal for tight spots. It’s purpose however is drilling specially in situations where of course due to space restrictions one needs a short tool. In those situations also most times applying pressure is a problem. That is what it’s specialty is. Now, there are other parts associated with it which unfortunately I do not have and are nearly impossible to find for it. The tool is rare but the accessories are basically extinct since they were mostly lost over the years.

 

HINT. A similar device was on a WHATIZIT a while back for a related tool.

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Pullstart

How about the dimensions of it?  I am thinking maybe drilling through basement floor joists… but it sounds much smaller.

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formariz

Tool is small as shown in photos below. It is designed to be used with twist bits up to 3/8" or so. Id you look at video provided by @echris from 11:03 to 11:51 there is a large version of it being used. This one can be used the same way as far as pressure applied to it. Due to its size however that setup would be impractical only with a few exceptions. That system shown more specifically the clamp being used to apply pressure is called an  "old man".  Again possible with this one and one of the ways to use it, but there is a more convenient way that would be used in most instances. Most times one would use it in situations where the piece being drilled would not be stationary in such a way as to use the "old man". There are two versions of this tool. This one has the knurled area to control that part  by hand. There is another one where that part is controlled with an open end wrench being a sort of "heavier duty" tool. Both versions are similar in size and will use same accessories. The "old man" although an accessory that was not designed particularly with only  this tool in mind . It could be used in many other ways. The accessories for these tools  however were designed for it.

 

This particular one is about 110 years old.Using these old tools is extremely enjoyable . There is a relationship one develops with the work that cannot be achieved with modern tools. One is so much more aware of what is happening while using them and becomes extremely  in tune with the process and what is needed to perform it efficiently sch as the exact pressure needed and how sharp our tools are. The lack of a noisy electric drill allows one to hear the actual cutting of the metal by the bit . That sound tells us everything one needs to know about how well or not things are going. May sound silly to many but trust me on it.

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Edited by formariz

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SylvanLakeWH

Drilling air handling / duct work to joists etc. in tight spaces…? 

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formariz
1 hour ago, SylvanLakeWH said:

Drilling air handling / duct work to joists etc. in tight spaces…? 

It can drill anything anywhere. The question is how does one use it or more directly how does one apply constant even pressure as one drills ?

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wh500special

My grandfather had something that looked like that in one of his boxes of old stuff.  I have no idea what happened to it when he passed but I bet dad has it somewhere in his basement now.  His had a different ratcheting mechanism than yours (looks to) have.  I never saw him use it but he described that you'd wedge it between the workpiece and a lever to apply pressure to the thing while you ratcheted the drill to spin the bit.  I never really visualized what he meant by the generic description and unfortunately I didn't take enough interest in the piece to ask more questions other than the "what the heck is this thing?" conversation starter.

 

I would imagine this is well-suited to holes drilled horizontally where you can't get your weight behind the bit easily but can rig up a lever system.  Or I suppose you could trap it and your workpiece in a vise and drill it that way.  I'm sure there is an ideal use case where this replaces a eggbeater or bit and brace.  Maybe best suited for materials other than wood where slow speed and high feedforce are key.

 

I googled some targeted search words that found more examples of tools like this but there are scant descriptions out there.  Rather than post them here and pollute things I'm hoping you're close to the big reveal.

 

My grandpa was a catch-all craftsman who spent his career working in sweatshops and factories.  I don't know that he used the one he had as any particular specific trade and perhaps he just picked it up at an auction or from some random place.  Hopefully it turns up some day.

 

 

Steve

Edited by wh500special

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oldlineman

As you rotate the drill does the other end were the center point is located extent in direct relation to the rotation of the drill, to essentially make the tool longer to apply pressure on the drill bit and drill material.  Bob 

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formariz

I said before “ it can drill anything anywhere”. 
 Now imagine that you are given the task of for example , to drill a solid metal rod or pipe 20 feet high, no access to the top of it, and you have no power or battery powered tools. You have to do it by hand from the bottom of piece on top of a ladder. Today most would call you crazy if such was asked. Sad but true. One hundred years ago most would have said no problem. You can readily climb ladder and have that hole drilled in about 10 minutes without pretty much any physical stress. 

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formariz
20 minutes ago, oldlineman said:

As you rotate the drill does the other end were the center point is located extent in direct relation to the rotation of the drill, to essentially make the tool longer to apply pressure on the drill bit and drill material.  Bob 

Yes, but how to you actually apply the pressure particularly in  the situation I described before in post 21?

Edited by formariz

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SylvanLakeWH

“C” type clamp from work piece to point…? Point pushes on C clamp and drill moves through work piece…

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formariz
16 minutes ago, SylvanLakeWH said:

“C” type clamp from work piece to point…? Point pushes on C clamp and drill moves through work piece…

Possible but one would need many different sizes of clamps for different situations. Also not easy holding a c clamp 20 feet high on a ladder on a pipe and holding and turning drill at same time. 

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Jeff-C175
5 minutes ago, formariz said:

many different sizes of clamps

 

Some sort of chain setup perhaps?

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