K301 Generator won’t crank fast enough

[520hC-120 136]

Just put a K301 in my 1055 puller. I rewired the whole system with the help of isavetractor’s wiring diagram for delco Rémy generator tractors. I have a new battery in the tractor which is the correct size U1. It has 12.5 volts. Very healthy battery I use it for my John Deere with a 23 horse twin Kawasaki and it turns it great. In other words the battery and wiring are fine. When I turn the key, the starter generator spins the motor to the next compression stroke, stops for 1-2 seconds, and spins it again until it reaches compression. With no belt on the motor spins very fast. I’m at a loss here. Ran into this with my K241 on another tractor too. And just today I had the oil pan off this K301 and the ACR (auto compression release) is working. 

[squonk 42,611]

What size cables to the switch and genny and are your grounds paint and rust free?

[520hC-120 136]

1 gauge from positive to solenoid. 1 gauge ground. 1 gauge solenoid to generator. All other wires are 14 gauge. All grounds have dielectric grease and are bare metal. 

Edited October 24, 2021 by 520hC-120

[squonk 42,611]

Time to get out the meter. See what the voltage is at the terminal at the generator when cranking. I'm assuming battery cables are new? If you're not dropping too much voltage at the gen terminal it looks like you need the gen overhauled. You may have high resistance in the windings.

[520hC-120 136]

Ok, will check what I have at the A terminal. What should it be at? Around 12 I’m guessing. Cables and connectors on the cables are new. 

[J854D 137]

What first caught my eye in your video was the yellow starter/generator. Cub Cadet (yellow) starter/generators rotate the opposite direction from Wheel Horse generators. I can’t make out the model number on the generator tag in your video to verify it, but it appears to be spinning counter clockwise. The two Wheel Horse starter/generators that I have are listed as clockwise. Perhaps your generator is turning the engine over in the wrong direction. -JD-

[520hC-120 136]

You’re totally right. I thought of it briefly but then forgot about it as I did with a couple of things during this swap. I have an extra generator off a wheel horse that I will put on and try. If I remember correctly, the extra generator I have did the same action. I will swap it tomorrow and let you guys know.  

[J854D 137]

If you go to delcoremy.com and type in the model number of your generators it wil list the voltage, amperage and direction of rotation. Or just bench test it to see which way it motors. -JD-

[Maxwell-8 4,366]

I had the same problem, I check the grounds, and sanded the well, which was an improvement.

 

But I decided to open her up, since that is very easy on these.

I cleaned it out good! the dust from the brushes is conductive, creating some kind of resistance i think. 

 

 

I also sanded the top copper armeture with a scothpad (this was before) and oiled the bearings

 

 

And she works like she should now!

 

 

[Gregor 4,847]

  Not to hi-jack a thread, but I have a question. I have both my old laptop and my new laptop set up in my garage. In this thread, I can play the video, and I can hear the video, but I cannot SEE the video on either computer. This has happened to me before. I am using Windows 10, Firefox browser. Any ideas?

Just for kicks, I switched over to Internet Explorer. I can't do anything at all with the video using that browser. Chrome.....Same as Internet Explorer. nothing.

Edited October 25, 2021 by Gregor

[Gregor 4,847]

Using jumper cables, run black cable from battery neg to ground on motor. Run red gable from battery plus to A on generator. This should by-pass any wiring on the tractor, and at least possibly narrow down where your problem might be. The motor won't start with the key off, but it should turn over.

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 11,259]

One should wire wheel the ends of the housing and the ends of the end caps where they contact. That is the path to ground.

 

Any well used starter will benefit from a new armature bushing or bushings. They only wear on one side resulting in an oval bore and that increases the rolling resistance.

[Gregor 4,847]

Ever notice on a lot of these wiring diagrams, the batteries are 10 volt? I wonder where they came up with these 10 volt batteries.

[520hC-120 136]

I will first try the actual wheel horse generator and then proceed to take it apart and clean it from there. Thanks everyone for the input! No idea what’s going on with your computer Gregor. 

[squonk 42,611]

13 hours ago, J854D said:

What first caught my eye in your video was the yellow starter/generator. Cub Cadet (yellow) starter/generators rotate the opposite direction from Wheel Horse generators. I can’t make out the model number on the generator tag in your video to verify it, but it appears to be spinning counter clockwise. The two Wheel Horse starter/generators that I have are listed as clockwise. Perhaps your generator is turning the engine over in the wrong direction. -JD-

JD nailed it. Spinning the engine backwards. I didn't see the little movie thingy when I read the original post.

[520hC-120 136]

Update time, great news. I sanded both of the armatures and the field coils’ plates. New bearings, brushes and terminals. Cranks the motor fast and motor is running like a top. Only thing is I don’t believe it is charging. Battery is 12.4 volts when running. F terminal has .3 volts on it when running. A terminal has 2 volts on it when running. Did the classic test for these where you hook F terminal to ground and move positive to F to stop the motor but there is no change when I take the ground off of F. Are there any continuity checks to make sure F is connected to what it’s supposed to be in the motor? 

[953 nut 58,063]

Paul @pfrederi may be able to help with testing.

[J854D 137]

@520hC-120 Just curious, did you end up using the yellow Cub Cadet starter/generator or your Wheel Horse generator? If your generator is charging when you have the F terminal grounded then it should be alright. Could be a voltage regulator problem. Is the regulator mounted on the generator, or elsewhere? In either case make sure the base of the regulator is grounded. Those regulators have rubber shock mounts on them and a small bare stranded copper wire connecting the regulator base to the mounting bracket. Make sure that wire is connected and in good shape. I have seen them being the cause. of charging problems. Otherwise it could be a faulty regulator. -JD-

[520hC-120 136]

I used my Wheel Horse one. I rebuilt it as stated above. Voltage regulator is mounted on the inside of the tunnel underneath the tank. I will check the ground to it and make sure. I contacted pfrederi and got some good info from him. Will keep updating.