Another GT-14 won't start, lost!!

[Machria 77]

Hi guys,

My GT-14 about a year ago or so, died on me.  Was working fine for hours and then conked out.  Wouldn't re-start....   I checked spark, was good, and then I noticed with spark plug removed it looked dry (aka no fuel?), so I squirted a bit of fuel in carb and bang it started right up and ran for a few seconds until fuel dissipated.  Ok, off to ebay to buy a fuel pump, installed it, started right up and used it for a few days.  Went out to restart one day over this winter, and bingo, won't start.  Kind of coughs once in a while with some smoke coming out for a second, but quickly dies off.  Most of the time cranking produces nothing though.  Anyway, again checked spark, seems ok (I remove plug, and lay down on top of block so side threads are grounded, turn over, and I see a spark where it belongs on the end of the plug.  I assume that is a god spark?  Suspect of the carb, I decided to remove it, replace the fuel lines and send it out to be cleaned/rebuilt by A1 millers.  And since I sent it, I also sent the original fuel pump to get rebuild as well.  Got both back, he replaced some parts in carb, cleaned, said there was a "hole in the bowl"... and I see what looks to be some new clean brass parts in it.  I re-installed all, same result, won't start.  Seems like ok spark.

 

So, where do I look now?    Beyond this is kinda above my pay grade.  I know how to work a meter, and can use tools, and I know the very basics of a motor.  But I'm pretty clueless on the details, ...

 

Oh, PS- I use nothing but ethanol free fuel in it.

 

Thanks for any help!!   If anyone is on or near Long Island, I'll buy the beer and Lunch/dinner plus a reward!!!  

Edited April 8, 2021 by Machria

[squonk 38,911]

Still sounds like fuel to me. Is there a little screen in the shutoff valve on the fuel tank?

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 10,491]

What is the model number of the tractor off the ID plate and the spec number off the engine? GT-14's don't all use the same engine.

 

Garry

[Machria 77]

First, I just edited my post above, I now know I have the "Breakless"  ignition system per the service manual which I just downloaded and had a look and compared to mine. 

 

Squonk, I do not have a screen in the bottom of the tank as my nipple recently broke off, so I replaced the nipple with the tank insert available on ebay (rubber grommet and metal tube that sticks thru it.  But I do have a inline fuel filter between the tank and the carb intake, which is clean and does not seem to be the issue.  I can blow thru it not problem (tastes good too!  ).  However, I just read another post here in the other "wont start" thread that stated these fuel pumps like to push, but not pull to much.  And I did add a fairly long length of fuel line to my setup to make it easier to deal with.  I'm going to shorten that right now and see if it matters....

 

And by the way, I also suspect a fuel problem....   plug still looks a bit dry to me....  

[Machria 77]

6 minutes ago, gwest_ca said:

What is the model number of the tractor off the ID plate and the spec number off the engine? GT-14's don't all use the same engine.

 

Garry

 

[Machria 77]

This is the carb and fuel pump (cheap plastic ebay one) before sending out to rebuild..    I've since put the orig pump back on. 

 

[WHX?? 46,736]

With the fuel line disconnected does gas get pumped up from the tank? If so may have a stuck float in the carb. 

[Machria 77]

Update, shortened fuel lines back to about the orig. one, same result.  BUT, while turning over noticed some sparking from the terminal bolt on the right side (the front of) this thing, which was almost touching the cover to the right.  I pulled it away about 1/8" from the cover and the sparking stopped.  But it still would not start afterwards.  I wonder if that being shorted out blew something up?  Anything I should check?

 

 

 

 

Edited April 8, 2021 by Machria

[953 nut 51,647]

How much gas is in the fuel tank? The fuel pumps are good at pushing fuel up to the carb. but not too good at developing suction from the tank. My GT-14 would run fine while the fuel level went down but wouldn't start on a low tank level. I cured that problem by installing an electric fuel pump.

[Machria 77]

20 minutes ago, WHX24 said:

With the fuel line disconnected does gas get pumped up from the tank? If so may have a stuck float in the carb. 

 

Not sure what you mean?  If I disconnect the fuel line, how would it pump up from the tank??      In any case, I removed the bowl (suggested by the guy who did the rebuild), float seems fine and not stuck.

[Machria 77]

2 minutes ago, 953 nut said:

How much gas is in the fuel tank? The fuel pumps are good at pushing fuel up to the carb. but not too good at developing suction from the tank. My GT-14 would run fine while the fuel level went down but wouldn't start on a low tank level. I cured that problem by installing an electric fuel pump.

 

Decent amount of fuel, 1/4 to 1/3 tank probably.  Also, since I have the front end of tractor off, I even tried sitting the tank up high on top of the engine to make sure the fuel line went down to the pump.  Kinda thought of that one already.... thanks.

[Machria 77]

Is that last picture the starter solenoid?

[953 nut 51,647]

6 minutes ago, Machria said:

 

Not sure what you mean?  If I disconnect the fuel line, how would it pump up from the tank??      In any case, I removed the bowl (suggested by the guy who did the rebuild), float seems fine and not stuck.

With the tank connected to the rebuilt fuel pump inlet and the outlet hose as shown in your picture will the fuel pump pump fuel as the engine is turned over?

[Machria 77]

3 minutes ago, 953 nut said:

With the tank connected to the rebuilt fuel pump inlet and the outlet hose as shown in your picture will the fuel pump pump fuel as the engine is turned over?

 

 

Got it, thanks.  I will try that tomorrow.  Silly me, sounds like and easy way to test your getting fuel to the fuel pump, and the pump is pumping!  Seems so easy when sitting at the computer, but I can never think of this stuff when I have fuel spilling all over me! 

[WHX?? 46,736]

36 minutes ago, Machria said:

Is that last picture the starter solenoid?

Yes and probaly not the problem but good catch on the sparking you do not want that to happen. 

That's what I was getting at Richard .... does the pump move fuel.

Another thing Mach does it fire when you try what we call hand feeding? That is by a shot of bang juice down the carb?

Just for grins try a new spark plug... cheap and easy. 

BTW next time you need a carb or pump rebuild consider sending it to one of us. I know @ebinmaine likes and does a mean carb and I can handle a pump. Bet we'd both do it for parts kit, shipping and a beverage.

 

[Machria 77]

I did manually operate the pump prior to install, and it had suction on one side and a puff of air out the other side.  But I'll be sure tomorrow.  And also throw in some bang juice down the carbs throat again!

[ebinmaine 63,095]

53 minutes ago, WHX24 said:

BTW next time you need a carb or pump rebuild consider sending it to one of us. I know @ebinmaine likes and does a mean carb and I can handle a pump. Bet we'd both do it for parts kit, shipping and a beverage

 

Glad to help anytime Big Jim. 

 

[R Scheer 499]

In that picture of your starter solenoid there is a metal hose clamp that appears to have a throttle or choke cable running through it as well as electrical wires.  If those are wires I'd check them in case the insulation is damaged.  

[Tuneup 1,416]

So, in this thread, seems like you addressed everything but the plug. It's got spark, goes bang when you squirt fuel up top, hanging a tank above the carb has no effect - plug still dry. Rebuilt carb and pump. I was going to suggest hanging a tank but you took care of that and still a dry plug? Makes no sense unless that sparking at the solenoid is playing games with the electronic coil - which is definitely at the end of its life. It may spark in the air but not in the cylinder under mild ACR compression. Might be time to go with the standard coil and points firing. It's a good thing to do , is a cheap swap, and considering the age of the tractor - won't be wasted.

[oldredrider 2,547]

Since the pump is working and carb has been rebuilt, but plug is dry, it must not be drawing fuel into the cylinder. I would suspect a sticking or stuck valve preventing fuel being drawn in and/or very low compression. 

[Machria 77]

15 hours ago, R Scheer said:

In that picture of your starter solenoid there is a metal hose clamp that appears to have a throttle or choke cable running through it as well as electrical wires.  If those are wires I'd check them in case the insulation is damaged.  

 

That wire isn't really in the hose clamp, it is just tucked behind the loose end of the hose clamp.  I double checked anyway it was not damaged or nicked and it's fine. 

 

11 hours ago, Tuneup said:

So, in this thread, seems like you addressed everything but the plug. It's got spark, goes bang when you squirt fuel up top, hanging a tank above the carb has no effect - plug still dry. Rebuilt carb and pump. I was going to suggest hanging a tank but you took care of that and still a dry plug? Makes no sense unless that sparking at the solenoid is playing games with the electronic coil - which is definitely at the end of its life. It may spark in the air but not in the cylinder under mild ACR compression. Might be time to go with the standard coil and points firing. It's a good thing to do , is a cheap swap, and considering the age of the tractor - won't be wasted.

 

 

Well, after testing the fuel pump, and seeing fuel spurt nicely with the hose disconnected, I ruled out that.  So I removed the little inline fuel filter, just to be sure that wasn't causing more suction issue.  I'll pick up a new one.  And THEN, I put in another brand new spark plug (I had changed the plug last year when it first wouldn't start).  Low and behold, it started up on the first crank!!   SHAKING HEAD HERE!! 

 

It was running like sheet, but I was prepared for that since the carb just came back from re-build.  I followed the service manual instructions to adjust the carb starting with idle, then at fast.  Got it pretty good but I'm sure somebody who knows what they are doing could do it better.  Anyway, put it all back together (which I'm pretty good at, at this point!), and started her up.  After 2 minutes, while I was putting the tools away, it just shut down as if somebody had turned the key off.  Bingo, it would not re-start again!  So I put more fuel in to be sure the tank wasn't to low, no go.  After looking around, I see the wires connected to the bottom of the coil (the ignition trigger wire and ignition switch) disconnected.  I must have bumped them loose when putting it back together and they fell off when it was running!   wheeeeeew!!!   Plugged back in, started up and took her for a ride.  Now I can get back to work about moving some firewood around my yard.  This thing is my mule and greatly needed, it's also my snow blower which was missed this past winter.

 

THANKS FOR ALL THE HELP GUYS!  A bit of a learning experience for me.   Here she is running fast, and then idling....

 

 

[WHX?? 46,736]

Good deal Mach glad to hear! 

Thanks for the follow up. 

[ebinmaine 63,095]

1 hour ago, WHX24 said:

Good deal Mach glad to hear! 

Thanks for the follow up. 

 

 

Long time now folks have thought me a bit odd that almost never use a plug in a small engine more than 2 years. 

 

To me and those who taught me it's been a matter of maintenance. 

For a couple bucks pop a new one in. 

 

[Jeff-C175 7,195]

 

No, God sparks can be MILES long, and MILLIONS of volts and amps!  Followed by a very loud BOOOOOM!

 

[Tuneup 1,416]

Congrats - grab more than one beer on this one and Great Sound! I think that only new or properly rebuilt carbs can have her idle so low. You might want to raise it a little for best lubrication. Same here with wood hauling - bought a cheap log splitter at Tractor Supply and have been going back and forth with the 516H. Good times. Now if this pollen would get done turning the yard yellow-green, all would be right with the world. Rain is in Alabam and only hours away.