Tips on opening trans fluid drain

[krystolo 497]

1977 C160

 

Can't seem to get the hex screw drain thingy loose.  I sprayed some WD-40 on it, but it's really stuck.  Tips and hints, please.

[stevasaurus 22,229]

Put the wrench into the hole (make sure all dirt and grease is gone)...tap...hit...wrench with ball peen hammer...that should break the screw loose.

 

[Pullstart 59,551]

Using a nail or prick punch or smaller Allen key first to dig the dirt out might help.  Then as Steve mentioned, tap the wrench into place.  Better yet, if you have an Allen socket to tap in there then use a ratchet, that will really work!

Edited April 6, 2021 by pullstart

[ebinmaine 62,961]

@pullstart care to comment?

 

He and I share a cool trick from 1/2 way across the country. 

 

I learned a saying from an old mechanic many moons ago. 

We live in the north.... Rust is a way of life. 

 

That tech told me:

You can almost never loosen it but you can almost always tighten it. 

 

Sounds backwards to some...

 

TIGHTEN a nut/bolt/fastener an 1/8 of a turn first. 

 

 

[Pullstart 59,551]

Yep!  What EB said!  It works for tapered pipe fittings too!

[krystolo 497]

I don't have much space to work with.  Do you jack it up first?   I don't have a lift...

 

I was using a hex head on a screw driver.  Is there a better tool? 

 

I did try tightening it first.  No luck.

Edited April 6, 2021 by krystolo

[ebinmaine 62,961]

8 minutes ago, krystolo said:

I don't have much space to work with.  Do you jack it up first?   I don't have a lift...

 

I was using a hex head on a screw driver.  Is there a better tool? 

 

I did try tightening it first.  No luck.

 

Best to have a correct sized he's on a ratchet or a good old allen head wrench. 

I've seen em so tight I had to put "extensions" (pipes) on to add leverage.  

Be sure to be pushing up at the same time. 

 

A screwdriver just ain't gonna have the gumption to do it. 

 

[ebinmaine 62,961]

11 minutes ago, krystolo said:

I don't have much space to work with.  Do you jack it up first?   I don't have a lift

No lifts here either. 

We find a tote or real drain pan that fits under there as the tractor site on the ground. 

[stevasaurus 22,229]

Maybe with a couple of ramps, you could back the horse up enough to give you some room underneath.  Do you have any help at all?
 

[krystolo 497]

I have a little oil pan, it’s just maneuvering enough to be able to put upward pressure or use a hammer. 
I can probably wrangle my kid into helping me get it up on some ramps. 
 

thanks for the tips! 
 

Guess I need to find some bigger Allen wrenches. I only have a baggie full of little ones that came free with self assemble toys and furniture. LOL

[stevasaurus 22,229]

You do need the right tool for the job.  Wheel Horses do not take a bunch of special tools, in fact, I can't think of one...maybe we need to re-think where you are and what is possible??  

[ebinmaine 62,961]

6 hours ago, krystolo said:

I have a little oil pan, it’s just maneuvering enough to be able to put upward pressure or use a hammer. 
I can probably wrangle my kid into helping me get it up on some ramps. 
 

thanks for the tips! 
 

Guess I need to find some bigger Allen wrenches. I only have a baggie full of little ones that came free with self assemble toys and furniture. LOL

If it isn't drivable don't be concerned about getting it on ramps. 

That tractor weighs well over 600 lbs. 

Trina just did one the other day as she was taking apart the future Military Tribute tractor. 

That was flat on the ground in the backyard. 

 

Do pick up a set of standard fractional allen wrenches. We normally use a small foldable one. 

 

Be sure your oil pan has a minimum 2 qt capacity. 

[Pullstart 59,551]

If your tool selection is minimal, it might be a good idea to find a 200-ish piece set.  Once you pay for about 1/4 of the tools separately, you could get a good sized set for the same amount.

 

Here is a thread where tool sets were on sale for $100 and are plenty enough to rebuild a horse shy of maybe snap ring pliers.  The sale is long over, but it’s a good example nonetheless.

 

https://www.wheelhorseforum.com/topic/84137-ace-hardware-craftsman-tool-sale-until-12022019/?tab=comments#comment-831234

 

[Ed Kennell 35,610]

10 hours ago, krystolo said:

I was using a hex head on a screw driver.

If this screw driver has a removable tip, remove the tip and clamp it in a vise grip as tight as possible, then tap the hex bit in the hole and use the vise grip as a handle to turn out the plug.

A one gallon plastic milk jug with the top half cut off makes a good drain pan.

[krystolo 497]

2 minutes ago, Ed Kennell said:

If this screw driver has a removable tip, remove the tip and clamp it in a vise grip as tight as possible, then tap the hex bit in the hole and use the vise grip as a handle to turn out the plug.

A one gallon plastic milk jug with the top half cut off makes a good drain pan.

OOHHH!  I can do that! Resourceful!

I have a pretty big oil pan. Probably 6-8 qts, so should have plenty of space for the dump.

[krystolo 497]

@pullstart That's a great deal!  I have a decent sized socket set, adjustable wrenches, vise grip, and ye olde multi meter.  So far, I haven't run into an issue other than the darned allen wrenches.  We might have a set at the barn, but I moved the tractor to my house so I can work on it between zoom meetings.  LOL

I am going to look for a set.  Anything else you can think of that might be needed for routine stuff?

[squonk 38,844]

Go to an auto parts store and get a 1/4" allen bit 3/8" drive You should have the ratchet with your socket set. The right tool for the job. You are not going to get it loose with a standard foldable allen wrench set.

 

Harbor Freight has an awesome extendable 3/8" drive ratchet. Well worth the investment

Edited April 6, 2021 by squonk

[Pullstart 59,551]

And even with the Allen socket... you might be better off getting the set of them, rather than individual.  

[EricF 589]

A technique I use on stuck Allen screws like this type -- Get a nice L-shaped hex key/Allen wrench set, the kind that are several inches long so you have some leverage. Not the little folding ones. Make sure the head of the plug is clean so the end of the tool seats all the way inside to get a good grip. With one hand, pressure on the tool in the direction you want it to turn (push or pull, whichever is easier). With your other hand, use a hammer and thwack the end of wrench right in line with where it's going into the plug. You don't have to really pound on it, but nice, sure hammer blows will send the force straight up the tool into the plug, and into the stuck threads. With a few steady hammer blows, you'll likely feel the tool start to turn!

 

The trick is to deliver the shock from the hammer as directly into the stuck fastener as possible. For me, the L-shaped Allen key type of wrench works better here than an Allen socket on a ratchet handle because you have a better place to strike it directly (without damaging the tool)

 

With badly stuck fasteners, I've had socket-type Allen bits break on me, but not the old-style "L" bent keys -- which I've cranked and hammered on many times.

 

When you go put the plug back in, make sure the threads are nice and clean, and put just a dab of the silver "never-seize" on the threads before you put it back. That way, the next time it won't fight you.

Edited April 6, 2021 by EricF

[lynnmor 6,762]

The drain plug is a pipe thread plug with an internal hex.  That hex can be rounded out using cheap tools or not having the tool fully engaged.  This simple may be all you need.  As said before, be sure that all of the debris is removed from the hole to get as much engagement as possible.  You mentioned jacking, know that raising the rear will prevent a complete draining, and raising the front will actually get a bit more oil out.

[krystolo 497]

Just now, lynnmor said:

The drain plug is a pipe thread plug with an internal hex.  That hex can be rounded out using cheap tools or not having the tool fully engaged.  This simple may be all you need.  As said before, be sure that all of the debris is removed from the hole to get as much engagement as possible.  You mentioned jacking, know that raising the rear will prevent a complete draining, and raising the front will actually get a bit more oil out.

Great!  Yes, I read it's important to raise the front end to get all of the oil out, but I don't have much room to swing a hammer to get the allen wrench in.  I guess a few good taps will do it.

I think I'll get a small set of wrenches.  I might try the vise grips once before I go to the store, though. 

[lynnmor 6,762]

Just now, krystolo said:

Great!  Yes, I read it's important to raise the front end to get all of the oil out, but I don't have much room to swing a hammer to get the allen wrench in.  I guess a few good taps will do it.

I think I'll get a small set of wrenches.  I might try the vise grips once before I go to the store, though. 

 

If the hole is clean it should only take light taps with the side of a hammer, normally a hammer is not needed at all.  The plugs sometimes get damaged by driving over things and that is the reason the wrench might not fit.  If the drain pan is in the way, remove it till the plug is broke loose.

[Jeff-C175 7,195]

11 hours ago, pullstart said:

It works for tapered pipe fittings too!

 

And brake bleeders.  

 

You don't need to go the full 1/8 turn though, just until you feel it move, sometimes a little 'snap' that indicates it moved.  Hopefully not a big 'SNAP!' that indicates you've broken something.

 

11 hours ago, krystolo said:

a baggie full of little ones that came free

 

Those are made of cheese.

 

If you get a REAL key you can slip a short length of pipe over the key for added leverage.  I've got a set of plastic handled nut drivers that have hollow shafts.  They work dandy for this.

 

OR... best advice so far is the socket wrench thingy.

 

[EricF 589]

The drain plug on my 520 was remarkably well-stuck when I did my transmission oil change. You'd think a relatively "newer" model, and one that had been regularly serviced by a former Wheel Horse dealer's shop, wouldn't be in bad shape. But nope! The shop didn't clean up after themselves, so the rear end was oily and then got caked in dirt and mud. And, most importantly, the shop very likely over-tightened the plug. Using a hex key socket and ratchet felt definitely wrong -- too much torque and no sign of any movement at all. Using good Allen key like the one mentioned above and tapping straight up into the fastener with a hammer did the trick with far less effort and risk of damaging anything. The impact is what does the trick to make the stuck threads "let go" so that much less twisting force is needed to get it turning.

The socket wrench types are kind of a mixed bag in my experience. I've seen them break under torque. Probably has to do with less-than-optimal metallurgy and how they're fastened in the socket. And tapping on the end of a ratchet isn't all that great, so for stuck fasteners they're not always so handy. A good, solid Allen key lets you tap straight along the line of the wrench into the fastener to let the impact bust the threads loose. Now, once it's freed up, the socket type and a ratchet handle makes it a heck of a lot faster to get things apart. When putting it back together, it may be safer to use the old-fashioned Allen key to tighten things down. A socket and ratchet handle has plenty of torque -- too easy to over-tighten, and you're back to stuck threads problems again. Probably a sucker bet that the shop cranked down on my 520's drain plug with a socket and ratchet...

Edited April 6, 2021 by EricF

[Ed Kennell 35,610]

Not knowing what tools are available, here are some ideas.

The long arm allen wrenches are probably the strongest if they are made by Snap On, Allen, or my favorite, Unbrako.    You can add any length pipe handle with out fear of breaking the wrench.

I always grind a flat on the ends to get sharp edges and maximum engagement in the bolt or plug head.

 

I have also had uccess using a tap wrench to remove stubborn screws like the philips head screws in the Kohler flywheel screens.

 

Of course a quality high strength rit in an impact socket and a breaker bar or rachet will work.

 

 

Just  a few more ideas.     The key is to prevent damaging the socket head making it necessarry to drill it out.     

Clean the socket head free of dirt

Use a quality bit

Sharpen the bit

Tap the bit in to get full engagement

Keep the bit square as you apply torque.