76 B80 8 speed 1 1/8” axles. Axle seal?

[AHS 1,411]

It started with the puddle on the floor, it’s probably 15 oz worth.  Which lead me to my right axle seal. I got the hub off and cleaned the axles seal up, this lead me to checking the axle fluid.... full! Did I have too much in there? About 1.5 quarts. The fluid stain goes all the way up to the fill.. which by the laws of gravity cannot be dripping while sitting there! I changed it in about December of last year.. and it looks to be about full. It sat for about a month, maybe longer. I’m stumped... is 1.5 quarts too much? Could the vent be clogged/where is the vent? Can I just change the axle seal with the hub off, it looks easy? I will check today to see if any axle lube is in that bucket, and where it came from.

[ebinmaine 63,110]

Fluid capacity is 2 QUARTS. 

 

When you changed it last year did you raise the front of the tractor to get the fluid that is forward of the bottom hump?

 

Yes you can definitely change the seal while the axle is in place. You will want to put some Scotch tape over the keyway so it doesn't rip the seal when you are installing it.

You can use the hub itself as the driver for the seal while installing it to keep it square as you are tapping it in place.

 

You are correct about the laws of gravity but you must remember the laws of wicking fluids.

 

There is no vent. 

Perhaps the fill itself is seeping?

 

Has this been stored outside? is there fluid in the transmission other than gear oil?

 

[953 nut 51,656]

19 minutes ago, AHS said:

Can I just change the axle seal with the hub off, it looks easy?

The seal can be changed with the axle in place. First I would suggest thoroughly cleaning the outside of the transaxle and checking the axle bearings. If the axle will move up/down or front/rear (a little in/out is OK) then the bearing is in need of replacement.

The dipstick is the only vent on your transaxle.

[ebinmaine 63,110]

16 minutes ago, 953 nut said:

The seal can be changed with the axle in place. First I would suggest thoroughly cleaning the outside of the transaxle and checking the axle bearings. If the axle will move up/down or front/rear (a little in/out is OK) then the bearing is in need of replacement.

The dipstick is the only vent on your transaxle.

 

Excellent advice there.

 

That axle should only have up and down play of about 1/16". 

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 10,495]

Water will replace the oil. After a idle period of days the water will separate from the oil and go to the bottom. If you removed the drain plug clear water will come out first.

May be worth letting the tractor sit for a few days with the front elevated as high as you can get it to allow any water ahead of the internal hump time to migrate to the rear where the drain plug is.

 

Garry

[Ed Kennell 35,767]

All good advice above from Eric, Richard, and Garry.    Just a couple observations from your pictures.     That stain on the floor looks like much less than 15 oz to me.  With all that oil on the top of the case , it appears the leak may be from the fill tube.   And yes, before you  replace the seal, file the area around the keyway to remove all burrs and sand the axle  so the hub wlll slide over the full length of the axle.

[clueless 2,898]

50 minutes ago, Ed Kennell said:

All good advice above from Eric, Richard, and Garry.    Just a couple observations from your pictures.     That stain on the floor looks like much less than 15 oz to me.  With all that oil on the top of the case , it appears the leak may be from the fill tube.   And yes, before you  replace the seal, file the area around the keyway to remove all burrs and sand the axle  so the hub wlll slide over the full length of the axle.

Yep fill tube.

[WHX?? 46,739]

Neck was hurting ....

Sure does look like coming from further up? 

[WHX?? 46,739]

2 minutes ago, WHX24 said:

Neck was hurting ....

Sure does look like coming from further up? I would check those bearings, change oil & give her rear end a bath and monitor. 

Whoops quoted my own post instead of edit....  Brain fog from that second jab yesterday! 

 

Edited April 2, 2021 by WHX24

[AHS 1,411]

1 hour ago, ebinmaine said:

 

Excellent advice there.

 

That axle should only have up and down play of about 1/16". 

Surprised, the is no play. Ok all good advice. Is there any tool to use when pulling the axle seal? All I can think of is a tiny wine screwer! I don’t know if that’s even a tool! I have got tiny picks, but for removing a seal..

[ebinmaine 63,110]

Just now, AHS said:

Surprised, the is no play. Ok all good advice. Is there any tool to use when pulling the axle seal? All I can think of is a tiny wine screwer! I don’t know if that’s even a tool! I have got tiny picks, but for removing a seal..

You just use whatever you can... that isn't going to damage the axle. 

 

I have a particular screwdriver that is fairly long and quarter inch wide flat blade, sharp.

 

What I do is crush the seal in at about three different points around the circumference and that makes it a lot easier to move.

Then just keep leveraging it out.

 

 

 

[ebinmaine 63,110]

Definitely want to get yourself three or four cans of brake clean or whatever degreaser is Handy to you and get that transmission cleaned up. I'm not at all thinking that the axle seal is causing all that fluid at the top of the transmission.

 

[WHX?? 46,739]

10 minutes ago, AHS said:

tiny wine screwer! I don’t know if that’s even a tool!

It is if the missus don't catch ya! 

 

[clueless 2,898]

30 minutes ago, ebinmaine said:

Definitely want to get yourself three or four cans of brake clean or whatever degreaser is Handy to you and get that transmission cleaned up. I'm not at all thinking that the axle seal is causing all that fluid at the top of the transmission.

 

Clean it up first then watch for a slow leak, your assuming it the axle seal, that's a lot of oil above the axle seal even if is creeping up.

[ebinmaine 63,110]

Just now, clueless said:

Clean it up first then watch for a slow leak, your assuming it the axle seal, that's a lot of oil above the axle seal even if is creeping up.

I've never had an axle seal allow oil to creep up more than maybe half an inch above the tube itself so in my mind it isn't an option that the axle seal is causing that entire mess although I've been known to be proven wrong on some occasions..... Many many years ago. 

[stevasaurus 22,229]

My guess is the axle seal if just fine.  The oil by the fill tube is from when it was filled last December.  It goes in slow and some went over the top before it could drop into the transmission.  The spill on the concrete is from only a few drops of oil that finally dripped down the side of the case.  I'd bet, if the case was cleaned up, no more oil would be on the floor.  Clean case first and check to see if that fixed your leak.  

[clueless 2,898]

1 hour ago, stevasaurus said:

My guess is the axle seal if just fine.  The oil by the fill tube is from when it was filled last December.  It goes in slow and some went over the top before it could drop into the transmission.  The spill on the concrete is from only a few drops of oil that finally dripped down the side of the case.  I'd bet, if the case was cleaned up, no more oil would be on the floor.  Clean case first and check to see if that fixed your leak.  

What Steve said. Living in the south if a seal is starting to go or you spilled a little trans oil on the trans the hotter the temp gets outside the more it will flow and find the lowest point to drip (the end of the axle tube). I have two with a slight leak but only start to leak once the shop gets over 90 degrees for a few days. After 90 degrees they drip a little more. 

[squonk 38,916]

2 hours ago, ebinmaine said:

Definitely want to get yourself three or four cans of brake clean or whatever degreaser is Handy to you and get that transmission cleaned up. I'm not at all thinking that the axle seal is causing all that fluid at the top of the transmission.

 

Hit it with a can of cheap store brand Non-flammable brake cleaner. Let it sit a while then hit it with CRC Non-flammable brake cleaner. Let it evaporate. Blow dry it off. If you see any spots on the case that look funny hit it with carb cleaner and go have a coffee. It there are any cracks the carb cleaner will bring them out to the naked eye. 

[Ed Kennell 35,767]

4 hours ago, AHS said:

Is there any tool to use when pulling the axle seal?

There is, It's called a seal emover tool.       

 

 

But , It appears the seal is not the source of your leak unless your tractor was parked upside down.      The seals normally do not fail unless the bearing is worn out allowing the axle to damage the seal.

 

[AHS 1,411]

7 hours ago, stevasaurus said:

My guess is the axle seal if just fine.  The oil by the fill tube is from when it was filled last December.  It goes in slow and some went over the top before it could drop into the transmission.  The spill on the concrete is from only a few drops of oil that finally dripped down the side of the case.  I'd bet, if the case was cleaned up, no more oil would be on the floor.  Clean case first and check to see if that fixed your leak.  

Yup, that’s what I figured. I don’t know in December if I cleaned the transmission... probably not.... I will clean it this time! I have a bucket underneath the axle seal and not a drop in the past day.  I’m gonna try some brake cleaner and see what it does. The B80 hasn’t been used too much; it had original tires on the rear, and the tread wasn’t worn down.  And it didn’t smoke at all when I got it going. The carb throttle shaft bushing wasn’t wobbly. (I dunno if that’s a problem on the 8hps or not) And the cylinder wasn’t blemished a bit. All sorts of thing that make it look like it was just ‘sitting there!’

[AHS 1,411]

I always change my engine oil then my 8 speed tranny fluid. I would guess that helps with wheel bearing life? I dunno! I checked my B80 first, and then my 414-8.. neither of them have bad wheel bearings. BUT my 73 14/sunstrand ( it has the filter on the right)  has bad wheel bearings, but no leaky wheel seal.. 🤔 I was thinking @ebinmaine how do you do the loaded tires with the wheel weights on your snowplow?! That must be hard on the bearings! 

[953 nut 51,656]

I have loaded tires and wheel weights on the GT-14 (sundstrand), 418-C (eaton 1100) and 1055 (gearjammer) and have had no bearing problems. Eventually everything needs a little attention so I wouldn't be too concerned about 48  year old bearings needing replacement.

[ebinmaine 63,110]

13 minutes ago, AHS said:

how do you do the loaded tires with the wheel weights on your snowplow?! That must be hard on the bearings

The fluid fill has extremely little to no effect on the bearings. It moves with the tire rotation. 

From what I understand the solid weights are similar in characteristics. 

 

Also, the extra weight is on the GROUND, not the tractor. 

 

If the weight was on the tractor such as an implement I could see more rapid bearing wear. 

 

[AHS 1,411]

The weight is on the GROUND, not the tractor! Haha I guess tractor don’t leave the ground... well ares don’t! 🤨 As with my 73, it’s 48 years old.. I guess it’s about time!  Happy Easter to everyone!!

[ebinmaine 63,110]

Those wheel bearings are a fairly easy repair. 

Splitting a Hydro is even easier than a manual transmission.