Cutting 8-speed seals

[Maxwell-8 4,270]

I have an 8 speed but somebody welded the hubs on, and i don't have excess to replacement hubs, so cutting them of is not gone work for me. My problem now is 2 leaking axle seals.

Could you cut the seals before installing them so i can get them around the axles or is that not gone work?

 

2 question, If i fill that 8 speed up tru the fill hole, i barely gets on the dipstick , but if i fill it up to the dipstick it leaks everywhere.

What measurement should i take, the dipstick or until the fluid get to the fill hole? 

 

Many thanks

[ebinmaine 63,099]

I can't even begin to imagine that cutting the seals before you try to install them into such a small space is going to work okay.

 

I wonder if maybe somebody on here that has knowledge of antique cars would know if there are seals or a substance that could be installed and left to harden?

 

The 8-speed transmission should have a fluid capacity of two quarts. Be sure to fully drain the transmission out the BOTTOM REAR plug by raising the front of the tractor as much as you can safely do so to get the fluid out of the forward well.

 

[ebinmaine 63,099]

I'm just thinking to myself I wonder if there's some sort of a substance that you can stuff into that seal groove and then get a 1.25 inch ID split locking collar and put it up against it to hold it in place

 

The right answer? Certainly not but you already know that. Would it work? Beats me. But might be worth a shot.

 

 

[bc.gold 3,399]

15 minutes ago, Maxwell-8 said:

I have an 8 speed but somebody welded the hubs on, and i don't have excess to replacement hubs, so cutting them of is not gone work for me. My problem now is 2 leaking axle seals.

Could you cut the seals before installing them so i can get them around the axles or is that not gone work?

 

2 question, If i fill that 8 speed up tru the fill hole, i barely gets on the dipstick , but if i fill it up to the dipstick it leaks everywhere.

What measurement should i take, the dipstick or until the fluid get to the fill hole? 

 

Many thanks

 

Remove and replace the hubs.

 

When the oil reaches the bottom lip of the fill hole you have met the manufactures requirements.

[bc.gold 3,399]

34 minutes ago, ebinmaine said:

I can't even begin to imagine that cutting the seals before you try to install them into such a small space is going to work okay.

 

I wonder if maybe somebody on here that has knowledge of antique cars would know if there are seals or a substance that could be installed and left to harden?

 

The 8-speed transmission should have a fluid capacity of two quarts. Be sure to fully drain the transmission out the BOTTOM REAR plug by raising the front of the tractor as much as you can safely do so to get the fluid out of the forward well.

 

 

I have never used corn head grease as a fix for a leaking oil seal but it's no secret it has been successfully used on steering box's.

 

Edited January 20, 2021 by bcgold

[Racinbob 10,276]

Standard rule of thumb I've used for decades. 1 1/2 quarts in the 3 and 4 speeds, 2 quarts in the 6 and 8 speeds. I ignore the angled plug at the back of the case. I've only got one with a dipstick. It's an 8 speed and when I dumped in 2 quarts in a totally drained case it hit exactly on the full mark. 

Edited January 20, 2021 by Racinbob

[stevasaurus 22,229]

Some pictures of the welds would be helpful.  Did they weld the hubs on both sides?  If not, you should be able to carefully grind down the welds to be able to break loose the hubs.  

   Here is a good idea.  You only have to break loose or destroy 1 hub...the left one.  If you can grind down the weld and break loose the left hub, you can split the transmission.  Once open, you can take out all of the gears except the differential.  You can then unbolt the differential itself and dismantle it.  Once you remove the "C" clip on the right side axle you can remove that axle.  Now you can replace both seals.  You can either re-install the right axle with the hub...remove the hub or replace the axles and hubs.    

   I would not mess around trying to stop the leaking seals, or run the transmission without the right amount of oil...you could do more harm.  Get in touch with @Skipper to see if he might have any hubs or axles for your horse...if you end up needing them.

   If you can break loose and remove the hubs, you can clean up the axles and R & R the seals without removing and opening the transmission.  

[Maxwell-8 4,270]

 

16 minutes ago, stevasaurus said:

 Here is a good idea.  You only have to break loose or destroy 1 hub...the left one.  If you can grind down the weld and break loose the left hub, you can split the transmission.  Once open, you can take out all of the gears except the differential.  You can then unbolt the differential itself and dismantle it.  Once you remove the "C" clip on the right side axle you can remove that axle.  Now you can replace both seals.  You can either re-install the right axle with the hub...remove the hub or replace the axles and hubs.

One side isn't that bad,  so i think that is probably gone work! Thanks

 

16 minutes ago, stevasaurus said:

run the transmission without the right amount of oil

So ignore the fill hole  Cause my raider 4 speed, can only be filled that way. Takes way less oil that way.

 

18 minutes ago, stevasaurus said:

Get in touch with @Skipper to see if he might have any hubs or axles for your horse...if you end up needing them.

I am already making a list to save on shipping cost!  We in Europe are glad to have him!

[Maxwell-8 4,270]

1 hour ago, ebinmaine said:

 

The 8-speed transmission should have a fluid capacity of two quarts. Be sure to fully drain the transmission out the BOTTOM REAR plug by raising the front of the tractor as much as you can safely do so to get the fluid out of the forward well.

 

I lifted here front up as high as i could whit the 4post lift. 

I don't have a pick of the oil that came out, but the yellow in the pan is how the oil looked. I will see if a flush is needed. (Probably is)

[stevasaurus 22,229]

You want the shallow side (right side) of the transmission down when and If you open the transmission.  So, you need to remove the left hub.  

[Maxwell-8 4,270]

5 minutes ago, stevasaurus said:

You want the shallow side (right side) of the transmission down when and If you open the transmission.  So, you need to remove the left hub.  

AAii, thats just the one with a ton of bad welding,

I am gone have to see tomorrow, it already 8 P.M here and the garage is ice cold.

Thanks! a ton!

[bc.gold 3,399]

Looks like there's a promising market  for reproduction hubs, these would be easy to cast but there is a another soloution.

 

These hubs come in all sizes and have the set screw drilled and threaded with the key way cut in, generally used to weld on a gear but why not a wheel blank instead. As a bonus you could create any bolt pattern for a custom wheel fitment.

 

A shop with a laser could cut the blanks with the holes etc in for threading, the shop that cut out the parts for my oil still did a fantastic job.

 

[Maxwell-8 4,270]

3 minutes ago, bcgold said:

Looks like there's a promising market  for reproduction hubs, these would be easy to cast but there is a another soloution.

 

These hubs come in all sizes and have the set screw drilled and threaded with the key way cut in, generally used to weld on a gear but why not a wheel blank instead. As a bonus you could create any bolt pattern for a custom wheel fitment.

 

A shop with a laser could cut the blanks with the holes etc in for threading, the shop that cut out the parts for my oil still did a fantastic job.

 

I do know an old fab shop, what that old man can make whit those +100 year old machines is just insane. one of his oldest machines has a date stemp of 1870

Edited January 20, 2021 by Maxwell-8

[ebinmaine 63,099]

35 minutes ago, Maxwell-8 said:

Cause my raider 4 speed, can only be filled that way

Transmissions that don't have a dipstick hole can be filled through the shifter hole, or by removing one of the two bolts at the top of the transmission which holds the seat pan on. 

 

The plug on the lower left side won't actually allow enough fluid to sit unless you raise that side a bit.

Or, you can add a little extension there.

That still doesn't change the fact that it's tough for the fluid to get in and air to get out so the easiest way is to remove either the shifter or one of the top bolts.

[bc.gold 3,399]

2 minutes ago, Maxwell-8 said:

I do know an old fab shop, what that old man can make whit those +100 year old machines is just insane. one of his oldest machines has a date stemp of 1870

 

Not far from my home there are two shops using old equipment nothing wrong with the equipment but the owners still expect 2021 shop rates.

[ebinmaine 63,099]

8 minutes ago, bcgold said:

Looks like there's a promising market  for reproduction hubs, these would be easy to cast but there is a another soloution.

 

These hubs come in all sizes and have the set screw drilled and threaded with the key way cut in, generally used to weld on a gear but why not a wheel blank instead. As a bonus you could create any bolt pattern for a custom wheel fitment.

 

A shop with a laser could cut the blanks with the holes etc in for threading, the shop that cut out the parts for my oil still did a fantastic job.

 

 

@Greentored Scott has been tossing around the idea of making these.

 

[Maxwell-8 4,270]

2 minutes ago, ebinmaine said:

shifter hole

Since we are dealing with on other torn boot, i will do that! 

[bc.gold 3,399]

Just now, ebinmaine said:

 

@Greentored Scott has been tossing around the idea of making these.

 

 

Anyone versed in home foundry projects could tackle that job.

[ebinmaine 63,099]

3 minutes ago, bcgold said:

 

Anyone versed in home foundry projects could tackle that job.

I don't know if he was thinking about making them from cast iron or Steel..

[bc.gold 3,399]

3 hours ago, ebinmaine said:

I don't know if he was thinking about making them from cast iron or Steel..

 

I would cast them from a good grade of cast iron.

 

GM had a winner with the 010 and 020 engine blocks, metallurgy has long ago bypassed that era and we now have metals much superior and the scrap yards have plenty to offer.

 

Edited January 20, 2021 by bcgold

[bc.gold 3,399]

Anyone with a 3D printer could make a pattern in multiples with each connected, one pour makes many. Later the parts cut free of the tree and cleaned up then sent for machining.

 

Example of a tree used to feed multiple parts casting.

 

[Maxwell-8 4,270]

To stay a bit on topic: Can it be that my 312-8 which is clearly after 1985 still has a 1 inch axles an so yes i can't find the part number of those seals?  I found the this number: 100863, but that looks so short for a part number?

 

 

[ebinmaine 63,099]

2 minutes ago, Maxwell-8 said:

To stay a bit on topic: Can it be that my 312-8 which is clearly after 1985 still has a 1 inch axles an so yes i can't find the part number of those seals?  I found the this number: 100863, but that looks so short for a part number?

 

 

Don't let that fool you. Some of Toro's part numbers are only 4 digits long because they go back so far.

[bc.gold 3,399]

21 minutes ago, Maxwell-8 said:

To stay a bit on topic: Can it be that my 312-8 which is clearly after 1985 still has a 1 inch axles an so yes i can't find the part number of those seals?  I found the this number: 100863, but that looks so short for a part number?

 

 

 

We are on topic, eventually you'll end up cutting that hub off and need a replacement and those are becoming a rare item.

 

The seal is easy any jobber will measure the old seal then give you one with a revised part number. Most manufactures use off the shelf parts then assign their own part numbers. making it impossible to cross reference.

 

Any jobber will have  the seal you need, you'll need to produce the old one for measurements.

 

Edited January 20, 2021 by bcgold

[Maxwell-8 4,270]

7 minutes ago, bcgold said:

We are on topic,

 

8 minutes ago, bcgold said:

he seal is easy any jobber will measure the old seal then give you one with a revised part number.

We don't have those places here, and the dealers are doing difficult, went by there today and they need a number, they couldn't find the number on their computer