A Tecumseh Tale

[Tractorhead 8,565]

4 hours ago, Handy Don said:

Hmmm, why am I here? Musta missed a turn while I was thinkin' about tractors.

 

There is no Thread that will be free of a Clowns capture in between.

That is urgently required, because of the strenght of Live.

We must calm...😎😂

 

Ok, back to topic...

Btw @Gregor the most of the old Coils have about the double windings and half the diameter in the Coils.

 

There is also a good reason for,

they don‘t be too stupid in the past to do it that simple.

 

With that „trick“ of more Windings and less diameter they increases so the resistance and the impedance of the Coil to restrict their ability to overcharge the battery only with the diodes instead of a regulator.

On the other hand there is much less Usable Amperage.

But because there is no heavy electrical Load on the Engines it works.

 

Typically measurable Values on a 12V System should be about 4 ohms

they can be measured by a ohmmeter.

 

Just to close up your knowledge a little more.

Edited January 27, 2021 by Tractorhead

[Chris.s 20]

Hi, I recently acquired a older wheel horse. Not sure on what model etc. The model number on the tecumseh engine is H60-75182H can someone tell me what year this engine is. Then the serial number on the hood of the tractor is 26737. I can not find what year or model. 

[Gregor 4,838]

  A pic might help a lot.

[Chris.s 20]

This is the best I have for now. Thanks

[ebinmaine 62,894]

1 minute ago, Chris.s said:

This is the best I have for now. Thanks

 

@pullstart

@AMC RULES

@wallfish

[Gregor 4,838]

Not a clue. But it looks rather uncomfortable.

[wallfish 15,871]

1 hour ago, Chris.s said:

Hi, I recently acquired a older wheel horse. Not sure on what model etc. The model number on the tecumseh engine is H60-75182H can someone tell me what year this engine is. Then the serial number on the hood of the tractor is 26737. I can not find what year or model. 

It's typically best to start your own thread as more members will see it and therefore more info

 

Your tractor is a 1960 model 400 or a model 550. The tractors are the same except the engines and the electric start components for the 550. That engine tag is for an H60 which is not an original engine for THAT tractor. The hood was raised to accommodate it and the steering wheel shaft is going through the hole in the hood which is for the choke and throttle controls.

Start a new thread on your own and and post some more pics. We can get you all the info you need

[Gregor 4,838]

I couldn't see how that engine could possibly be mounted there, but I have learned not to be surprised by anything.

 

The engine IS mounted there

 

 

Edited January 28, 2021 by Gregor

[Gregor 4,838]

@Tractorhead  I mentioned once that I was a coil winding machine. That's not true of course. Nor do I have a coil winding machine, at least I didn't, until now.

This is the kind of thing that happens when yo don't have any tractors or motors to work on. There are more features planned, but I am waiting on parts. I don't know how many windings there are. I am waiting on a counter.

Some finished coils.

To see it in action, click here  By turning the thumb knob you can slide the wire feed block, back and forth, as needed.

The motor is turning about 4 RPM. I have to stop occasionally to slide wires into place with my plastic putty knife. Are they perfect? No, bit it's a lot more fun.

To quote one of the great minds of this century, "I'm not crazy, my mother had me tested"

Edited February 1, 2021 by Gregor

[Tractorhead 8,565]

6 hours ago, Gregor said:

@Tractorhead  I mentioned once that I was a coil winding machine. That's not true of course. Nor do I have a coil winding machine, at least I didn't, until now.

This is the kind of thing that happens when yo don't have any tractors or motors to work on. There are more features planned, but I am waiting on parts. I don't know how many windings there are. I am waiting on a counter.

Some finished coils.

To see it in action, click here  By turning the thumb knob you can slide the wire feed block, back and forth, as needed.

The motor is turning about 4 RPM. I have to stop occasionally to slide wires into place with my plastic putty knife. Are they perfect? No, bit it's a lot more fun.

To quote one of the great minds of this century, "I'm not crazy, my mother had me tested"

 

 

Coils looking pretty good.

 

Nice Coil winding machine.

 

[wallfish 15,871]

12 hours ago, Gregor said:

This is the kind of thing that happens when yo don't have any tractors or motors to work on. There are more features planned, but I am waiting on parts. I don't know how many windings there are. I am waiting on a counter.

That's awesome! Nice job.

What did you use to make the little spools? Cardboard?

Curious about the reason the old coils had 4 ends. Is it because it was faster to wind 2 wires at once? Then just connect the ends together. 

Not sure if that would effect the power output + or - or stays the same but could doing that improve the coil performance or just speed the time to wind one?

[Gregor 4,838]

" What did you use to make the little spools? Cardboard? "

The spools are square wooden dowels. Then covered with cardboard. I was afraid metal might scratch the wire. Although, the coating on this wire is a lot tougher than a person might think.

 

" Curious about the reason the old coils had 4 ends. "

I don't have a clue. I seem to get plenty of voltage with just one wire. That's a ? for @Tractorhead While the original coils were wound with 2 wires, they were much smaller wire.

[Tractorhead 8,565]

9 hours ago, Gregor said:

" What did you use to make the little spools? Cardboard? "

The spools are square wooden dowels. Then covered with cardboard. I was afraid metal might scratch the wire. Although, the coating on this wire is a lot tougher than a person might think.

 

" Curious about the reason the old coils had 4 ends. "

I don't have a clue. I seem to get plenty of voltage with just one wire. That's a ? for @Tractorhead While the original coils were wound with 2 wires, they were much smaller wire.

 

1.  yes, they can scratch over the Time because of fine vibrations from the Engine.

Little shaking for short term will maybe not happen much, but over the time the light vibrations can harm the insulation,

a cardboard or other insulating stuff Plastic Spool mount therefore is recommended.

Perfect will be a completely encapsulated Coil i.eg with epoxy.

That reduces the cooling effect instead to an free wound Wires, but keep the coil protected against stronger continouse vibrations.

 

2. can have 2 possible Reasons.

 First can be, they may need 2 different Windings on a single coil for different Voltages.

 

Or they use the doublewinding scheme to get a smoother smaller diameter in the Coilform with 2 thinner Wires in parallel.

Thinner Wires in diameter needs less space, So 2 wires aside also needs less space in opposite to next thicker Wire.

I believe that was their Goal they try to archieve but to be honest i don‘t know exactly, what was their real reason to do so.

 

 

[Gregor 4,838]

So.  I have been working on a project the last several days. My last parts finally arrived yesterday. My goal was to make a completely automated coil winding machine. Did I do it?  Not quite. Close, but no cigar. For some reason, that I am not smart enough to figure out, the winding motor wants to fluctuate between 7 and 11 RPM. It's hard to calibrate everything, when the motor has a mind of it's own.

The winding motor pulls wire from the spool, and wraps it around a square wooden peg. The feed motor automatically moves the wire feed block back and forth, distributing the wire on to the wooden peg. It travels a distance of approximately .350", the width of my coil. But when the winding motor won't stay constant, there is no way to calibrate it. I suppose if I spent a few hundred dollars on motors and controllers, I could remedy that, but I'm not gonna. All of the relays, and micro switches may be replaced by a simple DPDT switch, so I can control the feed motor manually.

I got 90 windings in about 22 minutes.

So now you are wondering,  how much money does this dam fool have wrapped up in this (somewhat useless) piece of ......whatever. I already had the wood and plastic. Some of the hardware, and a couple switches. In all, about $175. Now you are wondering...WHY? Does anyone need a coil winding machine? Of course not. I just wanted to see if I could do it, and it gave me something to do. Well, I kind-a did it, and now I don't have anything to do. And besides. Does anyone need 6 tractors? Of course nn.......well maybe !

 

At any rate.If ya need a coil, let me know.

[Tractorhead 8,565]

Great, so far it seems you made it.👍

 

don‘t ask for what reason i built my ornament Trailer, same reason as you built the coil winding machine.

simply wasting time sensefully  to built things out of trash they may be repurpose.

What you built looks pretty far to a final state except the motor troubles you told about.

Nice solution so far - congrats to your coilwinder.

 

If i have to build such a solution i would go a different Way.

instead of dc motors on the gears i would have being used Stepper motors, because they can be synchronized simply together.

each step give you a defined rev. In degrees ( typically 1.8* per step) so if a layer is wound you count 200 steps on the Coil winding motor.  After that 200 steps you need to move the windselector a wirediameter forward.

 

That be calculated on a m5 thread (1,5mm per revolution) and 0,5mm wire 66,67steps.  So one pass 66 next pass 67 and toggling between them is a close solution.

At least if you on the end of a layer you hit the select and switch the dir here also the rev direction.

 

that is a fantastic project begin with an Arduino to solve this.

the programm for this should be not much longer than 10 lines.

While you work with gear reduction on your system, 

you need to increase the rev. counts on your Gears and added this to the revcounts.

 

 

[Gregor 4,838]

I have heard the term "stepper motor", but I never knew what it was. I am going to have to research them, and see exactly what  they are, and how they work.

 

Will a steeper motor have the torque required to pull the coil winding wire from the spool?

 

A stepper motor with a linear drive, could make moving the wire feed block back and forth, much simpler.

 

EDIT  After watching a couple videos, and seeing just what it takes to control a stepper motor, I think the coil winder is going to have to stay as is. Programming an Arduino, and connecting it to a motor control board, just might be over my head.

 

I may add a DPDT switch, do a bit of re-wiring, so the wire feed motor can be controlled manually, or through the relays, but to be honest, I think I have enough coils to last me quite a while. Like, FOREVER !

Edited February 8, 2021 by Gregor

[Tractorhead 8,565]

I don't want to reduce your archievement.

I just like to give you an solution how it can be solved a other Way.

 

A stepper motor is a special kind of motor, by it‘s nature it just steps in a angle of (typically) 1,8 deg.

per impulse. To keep a stepper Motor continousely running it needs a Controller.

This Controller will be handle the steps and a direction signal.

 Each impulse to the controller let the motor rotates to the next step.

 

The torque of stepper motors is higher than a DC Motor in the same range.

They had lot‘s of torque, but this reduces itself by faster rpm‘s.

With the step signal - mostly a generated impulse signal they can be stepwise turned.

So for a complete revolution it needs 200 impulses.

The most disadvance is, they typically needs 2 Voltages.

 

I.eg. For a standart nema 17motor you need 24V for the motor itself and 5 V for the Controller. 

Most controllers typically will be pulsed by 5 volt signals.

Controllers be available as a separate Part, depending on their Power requirements they also differs in Pricerange

from few cents up to several hundret dollars.

A 3D Printer works just with Steppermotors, because they can be syncronized with several axles together.

for this issue just a clock signal for the rev and a dir signal to change the rotating direction is needed.

 

To write a programm on a Arduino isn‘t in each thing needed.

in your application also a simple clock ( impulse) generator is enough.

A Stepper, that runs in full step mode means - each impulse make a 1,8 degree step.

the movement motor can be selected in a other stepangle.

where is

full step = 1,8 deg per step

half step = half of a step = 0,9deg per step and so on...

even cheap controllers can handle up to 128 fracts of a steps with useful power.

 

just a little backgroundinfo for you.

the DC motor‘s you’re using can not be simply synchronized, because little Voltage fluctuation results in different speeds.

 

That‘s the reason i suggest stepper motors, but if there is no need for it‘s fine.