Lawn Ranger won’t stay running?

[Crmaverick 91]

I have a 1967 Lawn Ranger with a tecemseh hh60. I noticed the engine started backfiring occasionally while mowing, then eventually it wouldn’t stay running. I can get it to start and idle but as soon as I give it throttle it dies and backfires. I’m getting fuel and good spark. 

 

So far I have replaced:

 

-New Carburetor (set mixture screws to correct setting) 

-New coil

-New condenser 

-New points (set gap correctly) 
-New spark plug 

-Fresh fuel (I bypassed the fuel tank filter and still didn’t change anything)
-New hh60 short block ( I swapped in a NOS motor I had after all the above failed to fix the problem on the original motor).

After putting on the new motor, it starts hard and does the exact same thing and dies. Does anyone have any other ideas on what I can check into?

 

thanks 

[SylvanLakeWH 28,408]

So a new engine exhibits the same behavior? 

 

Did you replace the full lines and clean out the gas tank? If there's crap in the old lines it will migrate to your new carb...

 

Also - Check the vent in gas cap...

[Terry M-(Moderator) 2,227]

Disconnect the ground wire from the key switch(on L-157 Model) or from the  on/off switch(On Model L-107)  and see what happens.    

[Crmaverick 91]

57 minutes ago, SylvanLakeWH said:

So a new engine exhibits the same behavior? 

 

Did you replace the full lines and clean out the gas tank? If there's crap in the old lines it will migrate to your new carb...

 

Also - Check the vent in gas cap...

I did replace the lines and filter. Then tried without the cap. Then I completely bypassed the fuel tank and tried running it off a direct hookup with a funnel and fuel line directly to the carb. 

[Crmaverick 91]

44 minutes ago, Terry M said:

Disconnect the ground wire from the key switch(on L-157 Model) or from the  on/off switch(On Model L-107)  and see what happens.    

 I’ll try that out, I have the L-157, thanks 

Edited June 28, 2020 by Crmaverick

[Crmaverick 91]

2 hours ago, Terry M said:

Disconnect the ground wire from the key switch(on L-157 Model) or from the  on/off switch(On Model L-107)  and see what happens.    

So I disconnected this ground wire at the terminal block leading to the ignition switch, problem is still there. Is there anything I should check on this terminal block?

 

I see some fuses on the terminal block In the attached picture. Anything else I could try bypassing? 

[pfrederi 18,670]

The bottom two are diodes for the charging system should have no impact on operation

[Crmaverick 91]

Is there a way to bypass the ignition switch?

 

[Tractorhead 9,209]

22 hours ago, Crmaverick said:

So I disconnected this ground wire at the terminal block leading to the ignition switch, problem is still there. Is there anything I should check on this terminal block?

 

I see some fuses on the terminal block In the attached picture. Anything else I could try bypassing? 

 

2 different Engines with exactly the same results?

 

i doubt that the error is in both Engines exactly the same,

or was it  just a base Engine Swap and you using the complete envoiremental parts of your old Engine.

 

 

When i do a bit closer inspection on your Pict, i see firstly a lot of oxydation in the fuse holders.

 

independently if this occurs the troubles, pull them out ( mark before also direction for the diodes)

clean the surface of fuseholder with a abrasive fleece

use just a bit vaseline to protect the contact surface and then pull the part in again.

Do the same on all other electrical contacts, part by part even on all Ground and Battery contacts.

So you can exclude an electrical issue.

 

Next i would check the Airfilter if it‘s clogged or even simply exchange the filter element.

check also the intake and outlet paths if there is any Leak or clog.

 

check also the silencer, if maybe a rusted part is loosening and felling in the silencer and clog the Exhaust path.

( use a Airgun and blow in exhaust direction) 

 

Same issues on 2 Engines seems for me to be a external issue.

another simple Way is let the Engine run, ( even if it’s hard to start)

and if it runs spray with WD40 along the intake path.

 

if engine reacts, you find a leak.

 

 

 

 

[Crmaverick 91]

4 hours ago, Tractorhead said:

 

2 different Engines with exactly the same results?

 

i doubt that the error is in both Engines exactly the same,

or was it  just a base Engine Swap and you using the complete envoiremental parts of your old Engine.

 

 

When i do a bit closer inspection on your Pict, i see firstly a lot of oxydation in the fuse holders.

 

independently if this occurs the troubles, pull them out ( mark before also direction for the diodes)

clean the surface of fuseholder with a abrasive fleece

use just a bit vaseline to protect the contact surface and then pull the part in again.

Do the same on all other electrical contacts, part by part even on all Ground and Battery contacts.

So you can exclude an electrical issue.

 

Next i would check the Airfilter if it‘s clogged or even simply exchange the filter element.

check also the intake and outlet paths if there is any Leak or clog.

 

check also the silencer, if maybe a rusted part is loosening and felling in the silencer and clog the Exhaust path.

( use a Airgun and blow in exhaust direction) 

 

Same issues on 2 Engines seems for me to be a external issue.

another simple Way is let the Engine run, ( even if it’s hard to start)

and if it runs spray with WD40 along the intake path.

 

if engine reacts, you find a leak.

 

 

 

 

So I cleaned all those connections and checked fuses for continuity. 
 

Removed muffler and air filter. It actually ran normal for a few minutes and then the same problem happened.

 

I wonder if the new carb I put on just clogged up real quick. With the old primer style carb I was able to keep it running by pushing the primer. 
 

I ordered a OEM tecemseh carb today and will replace the cheap aftermarket one I put on and bypass the fuel tank on the first try with it. 

[Tractorhead 9,209]

 

Clean your Fueltank.

 

remove it from the Tractor, 

drain it in a separate bowl or canister.

dismount the fueldrain and close it tightly.

fill the tank half with Diesel and put some smaller gravel 5mm in the Fueltank,

fill it to about half with that mixture.

Check for a sealing fuelcap and close it.

 

bind it onto a small concrete mixer.

let it rotate for about 2-3 hours.

 

after that remove the Fuelcap and put the diesel with gravel in a bucket.

clean the tank as good as possible.

 

after that procedure all rust shall be out.

wash it few times again witch clean fuel and drain it via filter into a separate canister.

so all rust shall be out even on the fueltank inside and you can remount the fueloutlet after cleaning.

 

so you have a metalic blank tank inside.

fill it first time with a filter and fresh fuel.

 

put again a inline filter into fuelline and you clogged carb seems past.

 

 

that is the best way i know,

for a how to clean a inside rusted metal fueltank.

[Crmaverick 91]

On 6/30/2020 at 11:18 AM, Tractorhead said:

 

Clean your Fueltank.

 

remove it from the Tractor, 

drain it in a separate bowl or canister.

dismount the fueldrain and close it tightly.

fill the tank half with Diesel and put some smaller gravel 5mm in the Fueltank,

fill it to about half with that mixture.

Check for a sealing fuelcap and close it.

 

bind it onto a small concrete mixer.

let it rotate for about 2-3 hours.

 

after that remove the Fuelcap and put the diesel with gravel in a bucket.

clean the tank as good as possible.

 

after that procedure all rust shall be out.

wash it few times again witch clean fuel and drain it via filter into a separate canister.

so all rust shall be out even on the fueltank inside and you can remount the fueloutlet after cleaning.

 

so you have a metalic blank tank inside.

fill it first time with a filter and fresh fuel.

 

put again a inline filter into fuelline and you clogged carb seems past.

 

 

that is the best way i know,

for a how to clean a inside rusted metal fueltank.

I bypassed the fuel tank just to try out the new carb I got today and still having the same issue.

 

I used a battery pack jumper to jump the battery, now I have no spark and it won’t start at all. I can’t see spark but it gave me a nice shock still. 
 

Did I just fry something? What should I check now with no spark? I already replaced the coil, points and condenser. 

[D_Ram 14]

17 minutes ago, Crmaverick said:

I bypassed the fuel tank just to try out the new carb I got today and still having the same issue.

 

I used a battery pack jumper to jump the battery, now I have no spark and it won’t start at all. I can’t see spark but it gave me a nice shock still. 
 

Did I just fry something? What should I check now with no spark? I already replaced the coil, points and condenser. 

I need to follow this, apparently I am having the same issue with my 69 HH100. So let us know what you find.

[Crmaverick 91]

18 minutes ago, D_Ram said:

I need to follow this, apparently I am having the same issue with my 69 HH100. So let us know what you find.

it’s very strange, new carburetor with fresh fuel bypassing the tank, exact same problem.

 

then I had to jump the battery with a jumper pack, cranked the motor over and got it started for a couple mins. Then it started coughing when I gave it throttle and shut off.

 

after that it wouldn’t start anymore. I checked for spark and didn’t see any spark, although it’s  doing something because it gave me a nice shock. 

[pfrederi 18,670]

43 minutes ago, D_Ram said:

I need to follow this, apparently I am having the same issue with my 69 HH100. So let us know what you find.

 

 

You HH10 probably has the solid state ignition...Completely different system

[Crmaverick 91]

24 minutes ago, pfrederi said:

 

 

You HH10 probably has the solid state ignition...Completely different system

so I’m not getting continuity on these two middle fuses, they look different from regular fuses. Is there any reason I can’t replace them with regular 10 amp fuses like the top white one? 

[D_Ram 14]

56 minutes ago, pfrederi said:

 

 

You HH10 probably has the solid state ignition...Completely different system

Yes it does have SSI

[Tractorhead 9,209]

On 6/28/2020 at 11:46 PM, pfrederi said:

The bottom two are diodes for the charging system should have no impact on operation

Paul  @pfrederihad allready told what they both in the middle are for, that are no fuses, that are diodes.

That‘s completely other things.

Diodes just let current flow in one direction.

 

Check you ground connection and ground wires, clean the surface between Engine, Frame and Battery and the screwed teminals.

they must be metallic blank on contact surface.

dismount the poles ( one at a time) clean it i.eg. with a steelbrush and scew it back on.

At least protect the contacts with a light film of Vaseline, to prevent rust.

 

if the screwed connectors on the Cables are bad, exchange them with new ones.

 

 

 

dang few hundrets of miles between us for a quick visit and get it running.

 

Even check this on all other electrical connector.

 

Be aware for exchange the diodes with fuses, that will destoy a lot.

even the diodes must urgently after cleaning the surfaces reinserting in the same direction as they are now.

otherwise they will not work or even been damaged.

 

 

Edited July 2, 2020 by Tractorhead

[Crmaverick 91]

3 hours ago, Tractorhead said:

Paul  @pfrederihad allready told what they both in the middle are for, that are no fuses, that are diodes.

That‘s completely other things.

Diodes just let current flow in one direction.

 

Check you ground connection and ground wires, clean the surface between Engine, Frame and Battery and the screwed teminals.

they must be metallic blank on contact surface.

dismount the poles ( one at a time) clean it i.eg. with a steelbrush and scew it back on.

At least protect the contacts with a light film of Vaseline, to prevent rust.

 

if the screwed connectors on the Cables are bad, exchange them with new ones.

 

 

 

dang few hundrets of miles between us for a quick visit and get it running.

 

Even check this on all other electrical connector.

 

Be aware for exchange the diodes with fuses, that will destoy a lot.

even the diodes must urgently after cleaning the surfaces reinserting in the same direction as they are now.

otherwise they will not work or even been damaged.

 

 

Thanks, I did put those diodes back in the same direction. I’ll clean all connections and let you know how it goes. 
 

Is there a chance the battery pack blew something? I would think not since there’s a fuse for protection but I’m not sure 

[953 nut 60,013]

Have you been using gas with Ethanol? That stuff will contaminate your fuel system. Find Ethanol Free Gas at this web site.  https://www.pure-gas.org/

[Crmaverick 91]

5 hours ago, Tractorhead said:

Paul  @pfrederihad allready told what they both in the middle are for, that are no fuses, that are diodes.

That‘s completely other things.

Diodes just let current flow in one direction.

 

Check you ground connection and ground wires, clean the surface between Engine, Frame and Battery and the screwed teminals.

they must be metallic blank on contact surface.

dismount the poles ( one at a time) clean it i.eg. with a steelbrush and scew it back on.

At least protect the contacts with a light film of Vaseline, to prevent rust.

 

if the screwed connectors on the Cables are bad, exchange them with new ones.

 

 

 

dang few hundrets of miles between us for a quick visit and get it running.

 

Even check this on all other electrical connector.

 

Be aware for exchange the diodes with fuses, that will destoy a lot.

even the diodes must urgently after cleaning the surfaces reinserting in the same direction as they are now.

otherwise they will not work or even been damaged.

 

 

I cleaned all connections and I even ran a ground strap from the block to frame with clean metal. 
 

It starts but the same problem happens it just dies. Could the stator/magneto be bad? 

[953 nut 60,013]

I would double check the setting on your points.

[Crmaverick 91]

32 minutes ago, 953 nut said:

I would double check the setting on your points.

I triple checked them when I had the flywheel off last weekend. 

[Tractorhead 9,209]

ok let‘s verify what happens:

 

you have fuel from another clean source.

you have an new inlinefilter in your fuelline?

after that clean the carb completely again even all nozzels.

you checked the points - but as far as i know the 60Hh is just with magneto available, but i may wrong.

you told you’re also change the Engine (but how about the externals- means intake line and exhaust)

you have still missfire also with a changed Engine.

i‘m right so far?

 

 

[Crmaverick 91]

9 hours ago, Tractorhead said:

ok let‘s verify what happens:

 

you have fuel from another clean source.

you have an new inlinefilter in your fuelline?

after that clean the carb completely again even all nozzels.

you checked the points - but as far as i know the 60Hh is just with magneto available, but i may wrong.

you told you’re also change the Engine (but how about the externals- means intake line and exhaust)

you have still missfire also with a changed Engine.

i‘m right so far?

 

 

Right so I have a clean fuel source bypassing the tank. Brand new carb out of the box yesterday.

 

All externals I swapped. I tried running it without the muffler in case it was clogged up. 

 

The engine starts but won’t stay running, give it throttle it coughs and dies. Doing the exact same thing the old motor did.

 

Heres a question, could the magneto be bad? I noticed the magnet layers were separated. As in when I pulled the flywheel I could feel then bending around, if that makes sense? 
 

Also what would be a good way to bypass my ignition switch? 

 

See photo on how magnets are kind of separated 

Edited July 3, 2020 by Crmaverick