Think I Threw A Rod....

[71_Bronco 1,072]

So I took my Commando 8 out when I got home to mow the lawn. Didnt get a chance this weekend, so I figured I'd do it after work.

 

Drove around the yard a little trying to remember where I left my gas can, and everything was going good. Found the can, refueled, and went to mow.

 

Did one pass (using a 36" rear-drive deck) and everything was going as normal since I got the tractor about a year ago. At the end of the yard, went to do a 3-point "K" turn. As I finished the turn, things went south.

 

First I noticed a loud "klacking" sound from the motor. I thought to myself "that's odd, I've never heard that before". Just as I finished that thought, the engine gave a loud metalic-y POP, then sputtered to a halt. I turned the key, it turned over, but didnt fire. I also noticed what looked like white smoke coming from the front of the motor.

 

I pushed it to the garage and did some investigating. Discovered the smoke was coming from the points cover (never did that before). No idea what would cause this.

 

I pulled the plug and looked in. Turned over the motor slowly by blipping the key. The piston didnt move, but the valves were moving. Pulled the head off, and gave a little tap on the top of the piston, and it slipped down the bore with almost no resistance.

 

I took a picture of the engine with the head off (attached). Not sure if I can tell anything from it.

 

Luckily I still had my old push mower, so I got the lawn done at least. Have to figure out what I wanna do with this one now.

 

I always run it at full throttle (due to the splash oil system). I tuned the carb when I got it using one of those wire rpm gauges and set it to 3600.

[71_Bronco 1,072]

I think I may have found the issue. I checked the oil lever for hahas, and the oil stick didnt even hit the oil when put in. I looked in the hole, and there is oil in the block. I didnt realize I was burning oil (doesnt smoke when starting or running).

 

I know this isnt an excuse, I should be checking it regularly. Going to be a costly lesson. 

[WHX?? 46,759]

Yup ... let me know when yer in the right frame of mind to see a video and pics of this happening. Now you are looking at a new rod, crank reground... the whole shebang.

BTW nothing wrong with putting a check the oil reminder on the dash. Just cause she don't smoke don't mean she ain't using oil. Keep us posted if we can help. 

[Achto 26,550]

Very sorry to hear of your miss fortune. If it did not knock a hole in the block, you should be able to rebuild it.

[71_Bronco 1,072]

I guess I'm just a little more disappointed in myself for not keeping an eye on it. I bought it at 50 years old, I should have known to check it frequently. I would be fine if it was a freak thing, but once I checked the oil and saw it was so low, I knew right away what caused it.

 

When I first bought it, it smoked a little on start-up. The previous owner said it was in storage for a few years. Once I ran it a bit and changed the fluids, it stopped smoking all together (at least no visible white smoke like before).

 

There isnt a hole in the block that I can so, nothing poured out and it looks normal from the outside. Not sure if there is any internal damage.

[WHX?? 46,759]

Next step here Bronc is to pull the motor apart and assess the damage. If you ventilated the block yer done...if she went the other way and just  busted the cam we can rebuild her make her better... stronger...six million dollar commando... just kidding and trying to cheer you up! 

[WHX?? 46,759]

4 minutes ago, 71_Bronco said:

I guess I'm just a little more disappointed in myself for not keeping an eye on it. 

Don't beat yerself up about it Bronc... it happens. .. just learn from it. More often than not I hop on a smoker take off and think maybe I should have checked the oil. Kinda makes me wish the smoker would let loose as a good excuse to get off my keester  and go thru her. 

[71_Bronco 1,072]

I definitely want to rebuild. I just dont have the expertise or experience to do so. If it was something as simple as a head gasket, no biggie, I'd have the parts ordered.

 

I think I'm going to pull the motor and bring it to a local shop to have it done. Stimulate the economy a little and help out a small business, while giving me the peace of mind that it's done right.

 

Thanks all for the kind words, this forum really is like a family that picks you up when you need it most. 

[WHX?? 46,759]

Your Bronc.. this is what we do here.

I don't know wher you are from but check the members map. You may have a fellow member close who has the skills to rebuild it and might do it for joy and a 12 pak. Yah never know unless you ask. Nothing wrong with stimulating a local shop either. 

[8ntruck 6,369]

I used to have a Craftsman lawn tractor with  B&S vertical shaft twin.  I didn't check the oil frequently enough.  It got low and broke one of the rods.  It took a short block assembly to fix that one.

 

I put a sign saying "check the oil" on the piston and broken rod and hung it next to the tractor's parking place.

 

With my Wheel Horse, checking the oil is part of the start up procedure.

[Tractorhead 8,610]

8 hours ago, 8ntruck said:

 

I put a sign saying "check the oil" on the piston and broken rod and hung it next to the tractor's parking place.

 

With my Wheel Horse, checking the oil is part of the start up procedure.

 

That‘s a good advice.

i did an oilcheck also as a precheck each time i use my engine provided machines, independently what machine it is.

a regular Service is also not the worsest idea.

 

ok, now it happens and it seems you learned your lesson on this issue.

So look forward, you will learn now a lot of these Engine while fix it.

 

don‘t berate yourself either, regular oilcheck is a mistake that will happen mostly when you use machines in a hurry.

 

As 8ntruck allready mentioned, if you make a prerun-check list and do it regularly,

it will automatically become your standart in the future and preventing such again happens.

[953 nut 51,665]

10 hours ago, 71_Bronco said:

I'm going to pull the motor and bring it to a local shop to have it done. Stimulate the economy a little and help out a small business

Check around, prices can be all over the place on this work. Give @richmondred01 or @A-Z Tractor a call to see if they may have a rebuilt or good used engine.

[Pullstart 59,696]

I have been noticing some smoke from Putt Putt while tilling.  Before starting him up again, I should check the oil.  Thanks for the reminder!

 

On a side note, one of the go-karts smokes like crazy.  I taught the girls how to fill the oil and check the gas.  They are aware that it’ll be ok like this for a while longer, but if it stops smoking to SHUT IT OFF 

[Tuneup 1,416]

Sorry for your loss! These are tough blocks so you have created an excuse for making it new again and these rebuild quite cheaply. I am 50+ and can tend to rely on my experience a bit too much so nearly the same thing happened to me. Why check the oil on the restored C-125. It was good last year! Was very low. Lesson learned, maybe in the nick of time, for me. Focus on the positive - nicely rebuilt engine ready for another 40 years. It'll outlive all of us.

[richmondred01 2,205]

2 hours ago, 953 nut said:

Check around, prices can be all over the place on this work. Give @richmondred01 or @A-Z Tractor a call to see if they may have a rebuilt or good used engine.

I currently have a rebuilt complete k321 and a long block k321.

[bottjernat1 2,189]

Drop the pan and let us see what happened

 

[71_Bronco 1,072]

Well, this may be a little more difficult than I thought. Called probably 7 or 8 places that claim they are "small engine repair shops", but all said they didn't have the equipment. Most made comments about parts being hard to find, and that they dont have the time to take on such a big project.

 

One place said I'm better off finding a replacement motor on ebay.

[squonk 38,917]

Get a motor from @richmondred01. You won't be disappointed

[71_Bronco 1,072]

A couple places said I would be better at a machine shop, not a small engine repair. I found a couple automotive engine shops that say they do small engines on their site, and motor machining. Maybe I'll have luck there when I call tomorrow.

[71_Bronco 1,072]

On a side note, I kinda want to put a big block kohler in this tractor (not that I need extra power from the K181). A guy local to me has a big pile of 10hp, 12hp and 14hp Kohler singles out of Cubs. I've read I would need this style oil pan due to the shorter height. I could use this as an excuse / opportunity to swap to a larger motor.

 

However, I would still need this tractor to mow and function as before. Ideally I would swap over the existing 3-groove pulley to the new motor and re-use the deck and belt guard. However, I dont think this will work, as I would think the crank will be in the wrong position, and I would guess the crank diameter would be wrong, not allowing the 3-groove pulley to slide on.

 

Any thoughts on this?

 

Edit: Got in touch with the gentleman about the cub motors, he has a couple 12 hp Kohler with short pans and 1" output shafta (same as my K181).

Edited June 3, 2020 by 71_Bronco

[71_Bronco 1,072]

Quick update. Have the motor unbolted and free, just have to disconnect the choke / throttle cable and the gas line, then I'm gonna pull it.

 

Called countless automotive machine shops, no luck there. Small engine shops are a bust too.

 

I did find a guy in Massachusetts (from craigslist) that rebuilds them. Quoted me $625 for inspection, block bore, crank grind, new piston, rings, connecting rod, new valves and valve lapping, disassembly and re-assembly, and a bench test. Doesnt seem too unreasonable for the ammount of work and the parts required.

 

I tried finding a used K181 that I could swap my parts over onto, but the closest one i could find in decent shape is 3-1/2 hours away, and I'm still buying a used motor with an unknown life.

 

I want to keep it with the stock motor (or at least the same size motor), but part of me is wanting to take the opportunity to upgrade to a bigger one.

[richmondred01 2,205]

Valve guides are common in the k181 to be worn.

70% of the k161 and 181's that I rebuild need valve guides and the seats need to be ground. 

 

 

[71_Bronco 1,072]

New quick update. Picked up a K181 out of a golf cart. Runs good, but the carb needs a cleaning. No smoke when running.

 

The only issue is that it is set up with a regular starter (not a starter / generator). I want to keep the factory look, so I'll have to do a little swapping of parts.

[bc.gold 3,399]

3 hours ago, 71_Bronco said:

New quick update. Picked up a K181 out of a golf cart. Runs good, but the carb needs a cleaning. No smoke when running.

 

The only issue is that it is set up with a regular starter (not a starter / generator). I want to keep the factory look, so I'll have to do a little swapping of parts.

 

Probably better fuel economy if you abandoned the generator / starter, the permanent magnet flywheel alternator uses less horse power thus giving you more usable horses.

 

Edited June 6, 2020 by bcgold

[953 nut 51,665]

1 hour ago, 71_Bronco said:

I want to keep the factory look, so I'll have to do a little swapping of parts.

Not too much of a job. Swap out flywheels and sheet metal, remove the stator and your S/G bracket should bolt up where the starter is now located. You should be able to find a buyer for the stuff you don't use