516H PTO bell rebuild

[PMason 3]

We had about 6 inches of pretty heavy, wet snow last night in N. Indiana. My tractors snow thrower was doing pretty good clearing it off and I was just about done, when the PTO bell bearings, etc just came apart. Suddenly there was no snow coming out of the thrower and the shaft was dangling on the clip banging on the side of the engine. 

 

So how hard is it to rebuild the PTO bell or should I just take it to a shop? Can I just remove the bell and get that done. 

 

This happened about 9pm last night so I haven't really looked at anything in the light of day. I will post pics later. 

 

thanks in advance for your help. 

[WildmanC120 613]

The bearing in the bell can be had at Napa for a few bucks. PP204RR6 or Prime line 704250.  Unsure about the needle bearing inside but mine was ok. I just cleaned it and greased it. 

 

You will need a set of snap ring pliers and a punch.  The bearing should come right out easily. You can put a large socket the size of the outside of new bearing to tap it in. 

[oliver2-44 8,813]

I suggest you get the WH/Toro number for the parts for your specific tractor from a manual or one of the on-line parts diagrams (Partstree, etc)  Lowell has the 2 bearings and seal, with much better pricing than Toro parts.

https://www.wheelhorsepartsandmore.com/bearings.html

 

PS If you need the inner race for the needle bearing it is pricey from Toro.  There is a member on here that makes and sell them in the classifieds.  You can tolerate a little wear on this bearing race, because it really just spins with no load on it.  When you engage the PTO this bearing stops spinning ie no load.

[PMason 3]

Thanks for the hints and links. I have the parts diagrams and numbers. Every time I have issue, I learn new things. This has been interesting in terms of how the clutch works and how to adjust it. I want to check my clutch and see what it looks like.

There is a used PTO bell and clutch on ebay off a 518h I am tempted to pick up. Then next summer rebuild what I remove. 

Edited November 12, 2019 by PMason
added info

[peter lena 8,031]

wildmanC120  good call on that , we can tell you have been there, no screwing around , just getting it done , pete

[WildmanC120 613]

10 minutes ago, peter lena said:

wildmanC120  good call on that , we can tell you have been there, no screwing around , just getting it done , pete

I literally just 2 weeks ago rebuilt mine and went to Napa and used those bearings. It was a piece of cake. I was happy to see the needle bearing inside was in good shape. Cleaned and packed it full of Lucas red and tacky. Clutch is nice and quiet and works like a champ.  Might have taken 20 minutes start to finish. 

[peter lena 8,031]

good on you with that bearing swap, used lucas red   and tacky , thought i was reading my own work, pete

[19richie66 16,856]

2 hours ago, oliver2-44 said:

 

 

PS If you need the inner race for the needle bearing it is pricey from Toro.  There is a member on here that makes and sell them in the classifieds.  You can tolerate a little wear on this bearing race, because it really just spins with no load on it.  When you engage the PTO this bearing stops spinning ie no load.

Who makes the inner race? Is this the long sleeve over the crank that you speak of?

[WildmanC120 613]

20 minutes ago, peter lena said:

good on you with that bearing swap, used lucas red   and tacky , thought i was reading my own work, pete

Thanks. I use the Lukas red and tacky on everything. Good stuff 

[Lee1977 6,207]

11 hours ago, 19richie66 said:

Who makes the inner race? Is this the long sleeve over the crank that you speak of?

Yes it is a long sleeve. I had to replace mine on my C-120 after around 39 years of mowing. The roller bearing I discovered is an old Ford bearing.  I'm not sure but I think the same as used in the enclosed drive shaft. 

I was going to measure the sleeve as I have an old 10 spline Ford drive shaft, but couldn't fine the old WH sleeve.  I usually try to keep old WH  part together. .

[19richie66 16,856]

3 hours ago, Lee1977 said:

Yes it is a long sleeve. I had to replace mine on my C-120 after around 39 years of mowing. The roller bearing I discovered is an old Ford bearing.  I'm not sure but I think the same as used in the enclosed drive shaft. 

I was going to measure the sleeve as I have an old 10 spline Ford drive shaft, but couldn't fine the old WH sleeve.  I usually try to keep old WH  part together. .

The reason I ask is I have a 20hp magnum with an 1-7/16” crank and I was wanting to see if I could get a sleeve made that would slide over the crank but still fit inside a pto bearing. Yes it would be thin but it would mainly be to cover the ugly end of a crankshaft and to look factory as my wife will never mow or use the pto on this one I am building her. Just a cruiser.

[Lee1977 6,207]

4 hours ago, 19richie66 said:

The reason I ask is I have a 20hp magnum with an 1-7/16” crank and I was wanting to see if I could get a sleeve made that would slide over the crank but still fit inside a pto bearing. Yes it would be thin but it would mainly be to cover the ugly end of a crankshaft and to look factory as my wife will never mow or use the pto on this one I am building her. Just a cruiser.

I'll look for the sleeve or bearing. I did find the tool we made to press the bearing in place. It measures 10 thousands under 1.500".

.

[PMason 3]

In my search for information and videos, I came across this Youtube for a guy removing his PTO assembly and replacing the clutch plate. I thought it was pretty straightforward and wanted to share it here for others who may be interested. https://youtu.be/BrXORnaGBqo

 

[oliver2-44 8,813]

@19richie66 @PMason

Here the ad for the PTO needle bearing race. 

I rebuilt a PTO for a spare engine this past summer.  My race was smooth, but it measured a 0.0015 to 0.002 ths under size when I compared the unworn end to the middle worn area.  I was reassured by members on here that it was fine singe it does no work under load.  I had the face of PTO (where the clutch rides) machined at a small farm repair shop.  I recently put that engine in service and the PTO works great & quiet.   

 

 

 

[Lee1977 6,207]

2 hours ago, oliver2-44 said:

@19richie66 @PMason

Here the ad for the PTO needle bearing race. 

I rebuilt a PTO for a spare engine this past summer.  My race was smooth, but it measured a 0.0015 to 0.002 ths under size when I compared the unworn end to the middle worn area.  I was reassured by members on here that it was fine singe it does no work under load.  I had the face of PTO (where the clutch rides) machined at a small farm repair shop.  I recently put that engine in service and the PTO works great & quiet.   

They will get worn enough to shake when not engaged. It can't be good the have it running off center when it has a load on it. That was a new bearing and the worn sleeve.

[oliver2-44 8,813]

I agree if the sleeve is worn enough for the PTO to shake it should be replaced. I measured the sleeve to feel comfortable that it and the existing needle and end bearing were reusable.  

[PMason 3]

Took the clutch bell off. Straight forward process. Now to get the remnant of the bearing out of it. As most of you noted, needle bearings seem fine. Just need some fresh grease. Once I get it out then down to NAPA. 

[lynnmor 6,760]

I've seen a number of bells where people allowed the end to be carved away right back to the snap ring.  I guess you have no snap ring or groove and a new bell is in order.

[PMason 3]

15 minutes ago, lynnmor said:

I've seen a number of bells where people allowed the end to be carved away right back to the snap ring.  I guess you have no snap ring or groove and a new bell is in order.

I was wondering about that. No outer snap to be found. 
 

Assuming I can get the outer bearing track out could I in theory replace it and run without a snap ring? I used this tractor for snow blowing only. 

[Lee1977 6,207]

You can give it a try most of the pressure on the bearing is in holding the clutch disk tight.  I would adjust the PTO brake out 1/8" or more out from the bell to take the pressure off the bearing when released.

My guess is the roll pin holding the bracket on the PTO loop is bent  or the bracket is coming off one side of roll pin or the holes in the bracket are worn. This is letting the head of the lock pin rub against the end of the bell.

[PMason 3]

Going to give it a shot. At this point I would just be out the bearing.